You must tolerate intolerance, even if it kills you. This is ‘creeping sharia’, ’stealth jihad’ at work. By a single Muslim. There is no freedom of speech under sharia law, and only a semblance of freedom of speech left in America.
ADAMS, NY – Upstate NY Harley-Davidson dealer Iron Block Harley in Adams was forced to take down a sign facing route 81 behind their store.
The sign has been displaying messages to drivers traveling on Interstate 81 since 2002. Earlier this week, it read “Obama, are you kidding? We’re not Muslim. You are not Christian!!” a reference to President Obama’s recent speech in the Middle East in which he stressed the details of Muslims living in America as a way of finding common cause with Muslim majority nations.
Owner Erik Dunk believes that Obama would not have won the Presidency if the public was aware of the extent of his Muslim sympathies prior to the election. He indicates that this was a deceit of the American people, and that despite his continued pronouncement that he is a Christian, deceiving the American people to get the office is not a Christian thing to do.
Iron Block’s sign has carried messages of a political nature for years. The sign once said “Impeach the Dictator!” but Dunk indicates that no one at Harley-Davidson forced him to remove that message though it was far more politically controversial.
Harley-Davidson’s lawyers ordered Dunk to remove the message from his sign or risk losing his Harley-Davidson franchise. They had received one complaint regarding the sign from a Syracuse-area Muslim who told Harley-Davidson that the sign was offensive and derogatory to Muslims.
Dunk contends that the message was in no way derogatory to any religious group and was simply an indictment of President Obama’s behavior on behalf of America while he was in the Middle East.
He also claims that liberal media outlets in the area reported the issue with strong bias and several factual errors, pointing out that staff at the Watertown Daily Times are well aware that his sign has been running politically-oriented messages for years though in their coverage of the story, they only talked about the anti-Obama messages.
Tags: Barack Obama, Creeping Sharia, islam, jihad, Legal, Life, Media, Muslim, News, Obama, Politics, Random, Religion, Sharia, Technology, terrorism, travel
June 12, 2009 at 7:47 PM
All it takes is one muzzie to bitch and we cave. I have mocked England for years, now we are England. It will be a cold day before they get a burqua on me.
June 12, 2009 at 11:45 PM
One commenter at the Gouverneur Times mentioned that the dealer was forced to respond to the lawyers of the franchise itself, thus it was not exactly a free speech issue.
However, HarleyDavidson has some impenetrable rationale for objecting to what goes up on that billboard. It seems they are not consistent. Maybe their policy is to live and let live so long as no one complains.
What if the complaint had come from a Christian?
June 13, 2009 at 8:59 AM
It is precisely a free speech issue, it’s the exact issue that the United Nations and the Muslim block (OIC) are trying to force on the world, and it is something that all Americans should be very concerned with.
June 13, 2009 at 10:18 AM
I wonder what the average Harley Hog owner thinks.
Most Harley owners I know are – in your face freedom loving Americans – with little tolerance of what Islam represents.
If this became well known in the Harley community – it could be a nice thorn in the ass of Islam.
June 13, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Owner Erik Dunk of Iron Block Harley just has to be a bit more creative with his billboard ads. Here are some ideas: “Real men/women ride Hogs” or “Our sprockets will rip your thobes off” or “Our V doesn’t stand for victimhood.”
June 13, 2009 at 1:12 PM
How quickly and to what extent will Muslim’s begin attacking Twitter, Facebook, other social sites, and individual blogs for anti-Islamic sentiments. Creeping Sharia and so many others would be at risk of being muzzled by those oversensitive Shariaists with support, I’m sure, from our current Democrat administration.
June 13, 2009 at 3:19 PM
B – the jihadist sites outnumber the anti-jihadist sites by a longshot, and they’re on all the sites you mention…
June 13, 2009 at 4:46 PM
I wonder what Hells Angels thinks about their favourite MC-manufacturer appeasing towelheads? I don’t know about the chapters in America but the one in Copenhagen has been fighting muslim-gangs for years now. Perhaps they could borrow some viking-blood from their danish brethren? It’s gone as far as lots of ordinary non-biker related danes supports HA nowadays.
June 13, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Islam is like a cancer, wuth it’s tentacles reaching ever deeper. If we don’t start standing up we will destroy ourselves.
Bob A.
June 13, 2009 at 6:52 PM
Hate and intolerance are a like a cancer. One in every 5 people on the planet are Muslim, you want to fight and kill them all?
We need a way to go forward in the world without using war. Why can’t you give President Obama a chance to do what he was elected to do. It’s only been 5 effin months!
And you all probably call yourself Christians. Hypocrits.
June 13, 2009 at 7:23 PM
creeping,
How do you differentiate between the freedom of independent business ownership and the oversight of corporations of their franchises. I think this pertains to the current case. In fact it is even more critical in this case because it is part of a pattern of corporate dhimmitude we are seeing more and more of.
An independent might hang tough for free speech, but corps. have only shareholders to please. They can and do dispense with principle regularly. They *cannot* be counted on to defend against Islam, whereas independents can take a stand according to their beliefs.
That said, I agree that we should all be very concerned about cases like this and what they represent for the march of Islam in the USA.
June 13, 2009 at 10:36 PM
“margoharris”, you are a typical PC idiot. One in every 5 people on the planet may be Muslim – but the majority of them have no say in being a part of Islam. If they criticize or try to quit Islam, some religious fanatic will try to kill them.
Without reformation Islam will continue to hold back all of the people within its grip and continue to grow like a cancer. Obama’s pandering to Islam only indicates he has advisors who are as ignorant of Islam as you.
June 13, 2009 at 11:04 PM
First Ammendment rights. The sign should stay up. *Any* sign should stay up regardless of who it offends. That’s the whole point of the right to free speech. If some muslime doesn’t like it, they’re welcome to move to Saudi Arabia and get all the cencorship their little primitive heart desires.
June 13, 2009 at 11:04 PM
Margoharris – you are a short sighted shmuck.
June 14, 2009 at 1:30 AM
Margo…you’re right…give him another 5 effin months and he will be able to kiss every dictators ass on the planet
June 14, 2009 at 5:17 AM
In my humble opinion, being a quiet little conservative muslim, I don’t see how I would get offended at that billboard.
Like what alot of users here have commented – Americans practice freedom of speech. That’s just how it is. So Muslims in America have to tolerate that, and if they can’t, then they might want to consider what dear “C” says (in a not-so-affable manner), and move to somewhere else.
Having said that. If you fellas practice freedom of speech, why criticize the opinions that have been placed here by others, especially if they have put it forward in a civil manner.
As to whether or not the majority of muslims are muslims against their will, as insinuated by certain users, I’ll just declare myself to NOT be one of these people then ;)
Humans are ALL hypocrites really :)
It’s sad though, seeing that in general, americans hate or are at least wary, of muslims, and all because of a few radical maniacs. If you gu
June 14, 2009 at 5:18 AM
Dumping on Margo is a bit harsh as is the name-calling, which doesn’t exactly stress the maturity of the point you make.
If you really, really want to imitate Muslim Orthodoxy this site seems designed to deride, then let yourself be consumed with hate for Islam and Muslims particularly. You’ll fit in nicely with the hardcore al Qaeda adherents.
As for the sign issue, it is complete PC nonsense and Dunk should be able, within reasonable bounds, to express himself as the First Amendment grants.
June 14, 2009 at 5:20 AM
*continued* If you guys had clearer senses of sight, you’d see regular people form the majority of muslims.
Just a note. I’m a freelance photographer. I enjoy nature in all it’s splendour, and hate seeing destroyed landscapes. I like the quiet. I like staying conservative. I’m also a nurse, because I actually like seeing people be well.
I MAY have strayed off topic already. =) good day all.
June 14, 2009 at 10:10 AM
It is not a free speech issue when the owner of a business uses business property for non-business purposes. It’s an easy guess that that was the topic of conversation with the lawyers, and an equally easy guess that the company didn’t want to subsidize political speech by a franchise dealer.
Learn a bit about our freedoms. They do not exist in a vacuum.
June 14, 2009 at 11:19 AM
It is not hate to call a spade a spade. It is not hate calling Islam what it is – a large successful death cult. The claim of hate speech is a tactic by the left to stop discussion on issues.
The fact that some Muslims are convinced that their murdering, pedophile prophet – Mohammad -was a man of god, only proves that some people will believe anything.
The rules, regulations, social mores, and the entire system that make up Islam – in their entirety – have become an intellectual cancer. Unless non-Muslims and the few Muslims who can think rationally force an Islamic reformation, Islam will continue to slowly expand (violently) and consume the world.
What will be left will look like any of the nearly 100% Muslim countries. Pick one – where would you want to live?
June 14, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Except your knowledge of the situation apparently does live in a vacuum…no one, including the lawyers, ever complained about any of the political messages previously posted by the same dealer on the same sign. Not until a Muslim complained about his “feelings” was the sign or the political messages ever an issue.
June 14, 2009 at 12:13 PM
i was seriously considering a used sportster , i am now more comfortable keeping my yamaha.
June 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM
PC complaint math:
1 muslim complaint equals 1 million unvoiced complaints.
1 Christian complaint equals .05 unvoiced complaints.
1 Jewish complaint equals -3.14159 in unvoiced complaints.
So you see how we must respond immediately to a muslims complaint, but the Christians can wait awhile for a response and just ignore the Jews.
The main reason for this PC complaint equation is that when a muslim gets offended or upset they like to blow things up and people die.
Whereas Christians and Jews will complain and then move on or get over it.
June 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Mop,
That’s what freedom of speech is – the ability to discuss, criticize, lambast, ridicule, or anything else. That’s why we leave the comments wide open unlike many other blogs. Everyone has a chance to say what they want. If you don’t want to read criticism, there are plenty of other politically correct blogs that ignore reality.
Now, how is it that you can claim the majority of Muslims are “regular” people but that “in general” (presumably meaning majority of), Americans “hate or are at least wary, of Muslims”? Have you met the majority of Muslims? Polled them? How do you define “regular”? If it means regularly reading the Quran and Hadith and striving to be like Muhammid (a warrior, who led many battles and killed many) – the most revered of all Muslims – then it is safe to say that “regular” is a dangerous thing.
At the same time, have you met the majority of Americans, polled them? It is quite obvious that Americans are quite tolerant and accepting of Muslims. We post content written by Muslims regularly and we quote Muslims & Islamic sources extensively. Americans even voted a Muslim born American to the highest office in the world. A man with a Muslim father, a Muslim name – so clearly you are mistaken on your “feelings” of Americans.
Most Americans should however be wary of Islamic sharia law and the Muslims who seek to impose it around the world including here in the United States – which is being done not through violence but by other means. Regular to you, but seeking to destroy our liberties from within (that according to the Muslim Brotherhood, whom Obama insisted attend his Cairo speech).
We should also be wary of Muslims who adhere to Islamic teachings on jihad, and either act to wage jihad against non-Muslims or to support those who wage jihad. The network of support for jihadists is significantly larger than those who actually carry out the attacks. In other words, they are just regular Muslims by all outward appearance – except they provide financial support, logistics, shelter, etc. for what you call the few radicals.
Check out some of our videos of your fellow Muslims. Watch them teach 10-12 year olds how to chop the head off a fellow Muslim because he wasn’t Islamic enough. Listen to them chant “Allah Akhbar” just as you might on other occasions. Check out how Muslim children in “Palestine” are taught to hate Jews and Americans. How the leader of Iran refers to the US as the Great Satan (a common refrain in Muslim countries).
Rather than tell Americans to tolerate hatred and intolerance of Muslims, convince what you refer to as a few radicals (is following in Mohammids footsteps radical?) to stop the violence and attempts to spread Islam and establish a global caliphate. You’ve got your work cut out for you as those “few radicals” are waging jihad and killing in the majority of countries in Europe, Asia, North America and even South America. Let us know when you straighten them all out so we can go back to blogging about things we enjoy.
June 14, 2009 at 2:58 PM
mopthefloor31
Are you sure you want to sound uninformed as you do. “all because of a few radical maniacs” is that what your wrote? Really, lets see there are a reported 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and growing daily. If only 1 % of that 1.5 billion are “radical maniacs” my math tells that number would be 15,000,000 of those crazy A-Holes around the world intent on one this, killing as many non-Muslims as they can.
I ask you, if you are as you imply a moderate Muslim, not intent of killing your fellow man because of their lifestyle or religion, what happens when all the infidels are dead, you don’t think the growing number of crazy will be coming after you and yours, think again.
As for Harley Davidson Corporate, I think the dealer should have told to take a hike. They have enough problems with over $800,000 million in short term debt coming due shortly, and no possible way to pay it. They need every dealer they can get at this point to move their over priced motorcycles.
So mopthefloor, The First amendment allows you and your people to publicly demonstrate in our streets, try that in you “mother country”, I’m sure it would be met with disfavor….
I’m so tried of all this PC crap, if you don’t want to be an america in every sense of the word, then pack you F-bags and go some where else.
BTW Creeping, well said……
Franklin Morris
You are an not well informed of the scope of the First Amendment. or maybe just another PC idiot. There is no clause that precludes a business owner from using his property to advance his opinion. I worked in a Harley dealer for years and I can tell you the heavy handed methods the Motor Company uses against their dealers. It will in the end be their demise. The very fact that the Motor Company took the position they did based on one complaint says it all to me. There are Federal Laws to stop such punitive activities. The dealer was wrong to bow to those people.
June 14, 2009 at 7:55 PM
My last name is not Morris, and I guess I should take the blame for making such a brief post, allowing dissenters to read my mind and fill in the perceived blanks.
I don’t have to know anything about the previous action or lack of action concerning political speech. I do know that silence in the past means exactly one thing: the lack of a response. You are welcome to point me to past situations with the dealer in question or any other one, where personal political statements were made on company advertising or company property, and I’d be happy to read about those specific situations. What is false in every one of those situations is taking corporate silence as permission for those actions. You would by the same logic insist that parking in front of a fire hydrant is “permitted” so long as no one tickets or tows the vehicle.
What I do know is that any employee making political statements on the company dime will have nothing to stand on in court when their asses are fired. Freedom of speech is an individual right, and corporate entities are not required to permit it on their premises. The test of that concept is simple: replace the Muslim complainant with a hypothetical bleeding-heart liberal employed by the franchise owner making the complaint that his company is pushing a political position with which he disagrees, and which further suppresses his freedom of speech by making his workplace hostile to him. Top it off, after his complaint to the corporate office, with his ass being fired. Whose freedom of speech rules there, eh?
June 14, 2009 at 8:01 PM
Hoggdoc asserts: “There are Federal Laws to stop such punitive activities.”
Cite them. I spent 14 years knee- and elbow-deep in DoL and IRS regs. Be sure to specify how they apply to the facts of the Harley situation.
June 14, 2009 at 8:10 PM
Ever heard of restraint of trade laws?
June 14, 2009 at 8:29 PM
[...] Muslim forces NY Harley Davidson dealer to take down sign You must tolerate intolerance, even if it kills you. This is ‘creeping sharia’, ’stealth jihad’ [...] [...]
June 14, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Mr. Evans,
It is clear you don’t understand the relationship of a Harley dealer and the Motor Company.
First and foremost the Motor Comany has no investment in the dealerships, they are all privately funded and run. Yes there are limitations on using the trademarked Logos and such, the the sign or billboard in front of the dealership is bought and paid for by the owner(s) of the dealerships.
My point is that the Motor Company can ask in the interest of public relations to have the dealer remove signage they determine not to be in their (HD) best interest. They have no legal right to demand it come down or to threaten the dealer with loss of their franchise. This is a constitutional issue and only the Supreme Court of the United States can make such demands and only after adjudicating that the dealer has done something unconstitutional.
You sound like a Federal Employee that has way too much time on his hands. First of all in the real world no one working at a Harley Dealership would come up with such a lame ass complaint. That is the type of thing that is left to Federal and State hacks or union workers.
June 15, 2009 at 8:10 AM
You can be sure that no matter where this sign was located, public or private grounds, Harley or Honda, the complain would have been made and someone forced to take action lest face a lawsuit from CAIR with the help of the ACLU with someone like Evans vigorously defending against freedom of expression.
Similar events at Mercedes Benz, Honda, and now the Red Cross being asked to remove the cross from their Red Cross logo.
This is the exact type of law that the Organization of Islamic Conf. (OIC) is rapidly advancing at the United Nations which would make it an international crime. It originated as a ‘blasphemy of Islam’ law which didn’t get much traction at the UN for 10 years and then it was cleverly changed to a ‘blasphemy of religion’ law but still only refers to Islam. It will silence any/all criticism of Islam worldwide and prevent even remote discussion of Islam particularly by non-Muslims.
Don’t get mired in the myopic view that this is a Harley Davidson policy issue – it is bigger and we’ve seen these instances celebrated on Islamic websites and announced worldwide as victories.
June 15, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Whatever I may “sound” like, what I am is a former regulatory professional, responsible for keeping clients compliant with federal regs, dependent with those clients on the legal advice of lawyers they retain. As such, those 14 years taught me one basic lesson: assume or assert about the law as you wish, the proof takes place in a courtroom, not in your mind or in mine.
It’s ironic that you both make assumptions about my opinion about this topic where I have stated none. Common courtesy might suggest you ask for it rather than put words in my mouth.
Be that as it may, I take creeping at his/her word, and suggest as well that dissenting opinions be viewed at face value.
In the end, and I’ve experienced this firsthand, unless some party is willing to pony up the change and challenge the complaint or the extent law, we are all left with speculation and nothing more.
Hoggdoc, political correctness is indeed the primary evil here. I encourage you to continue to bash it, though it might be helpful in your attempt to clearly state your case if you refrain from ad hominem as a main support for your points. One thing about that: “First of all in the real world no one working at a Harley Dealership would come up with such a lame ass complaint.”
Really? Every Harley owner/manager asks potential employees about their political and religious attitudes and leanings? It’s impossible for someone with liberal beliefs to even want to work at such a place, let alone get hired there (unless they lie about their beliefs)?
I agree that the issue is much larger than Harley vs. Islam. Indeed, I believe a valid analogy can be drawn with the prayer in public schools conflict. Some of the rhetoric is pretty close, Muslims today, Christians back in the day.
June 15, 2009 at 10:13 AM
well, it appears I’ve been blasted fairly enough. Creep, thanks for at least explaining freedom of speech in clearer detail. And I shan’t try debating the good or the ugly about Islam, since that would be deviating from the purpose of this post, and would be a futile effort in any case. I’ll just stay satisfied that I’m not in a country where we use physical/psychological methods of infusing terror and “loyalty”, and that I’m free to think as I want.
And Mr/Ms Hogg. I’m no American, and am perfectly glad with staying at home, where we don’t practice whipping or killing people. I’ll keep my luggage here with me. ;) Perhaps I indeed AM uninformed, seeing as that I don’t live in the States, nor in the Middle East, have no interest in American policies, and choose to not care much about Muslim extremists. As for whether the crazy “A-Holes” will come and get me or not, that’ll be God’s decision. Because if it ever comes to that, then clearly the world is messed up enough and any human effort I could give would be irrelevant. And I can’t help but be amused that you probably assume I come from the middle east. I may be wrong, but it’s still a funny notion.
June 15, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Evans,
Don’t see where I made any assumption about your opinion nor that I stated this was a Harley v. Islam issue. Not clear what your analogy is either but there are other posts on that topic.
Separately, any insight why IRS allows an interest deduction on Islamic sharia-compliant mortgages when the definition of a sharia-compliant mortgage is one that does not charge interest? And that is exactly how they are being marketed in the U.S.? If there is no interest, how can there be an interest deduction?
June 15, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Creeping:
Isn’t it interesting that they the Islam believers can push this issue so well! I totally agree that it is an issue Americans and for that matter any other non Islamic country should be very concerned with. History repeats itself and for centuries The Nation of Islam has been trying to “conquer” the world again.
Ironically with all the money from the sale of oil, the “believers” have the money necessary to push their agenda.
These and many more caused me to react in the manner I did. I am sick and tired of watching our core freedoms be diminished here in the US just so some other group can have theirs. How is that equality?
Mopthefloor:
I really don’t care where you hail from, it’s your beliefs and the beliefs of over a billion other Muslims that scares the hell out of me. Do you have the right to believe the way you do, I say no. Not when those beliefs are so behind the times and negative towards others that don’t believe the same.
I shun personally all organized religion because of just those kind of issues. Believe as I do or there with be bad things happen to you. Fortunately most religions will tell you, you are going to hell or something like that. Islam will take you there.
This has been proven over and over again through history. Enough said on this issue as I have many other things I need to do other debate this issue of Islam with you. By the way what has GOD have to do with you future? There is no GOD in your religion, only a dictator of mankind….
June 15, 2009 at 11:00 AM
My “assumption” comment clearly is more appropriately for Hoggdoc. I agree that it doesn’t apply to you, creeping.
The IRS thing requires a reading of IRS-generated documents concerning the issue. If what you know about it is being reported by a second party, it may (unwittingly) omit important details. I’d need to see those details before offering an opinion… and at face value, it certainly does look ridiculous.
One possible area of confusion is the terminology. The IRS regs permit deductions for a long list of things which are usually grouped under broad headings that correspond with the form and section of the form on which they are to be reported. It should be of no surprise that some things get “grouped” under headings which don’t seem appropriate.
Going out on a limb with that possibility: interest is only one of several “expenses” associated with a mortgage. I would speculate that “service fees” charged by a sharia-compliant mortgage contract would be includible under the deductible group definition, even if the word “interest” does not appear in the contract. I would further agree up front that such euphemistic gyrations can leave a bad taste, and this would not be the first example of it, not by a long shot.
June 15, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Hogg, I’d ask you to provide criticism of other “organized religion” since you shun them, but that won’t be neccessary, since I have already mentioned the futility of continuing a debate not related to the post.
And it’s too bad my so-called beliefs “scares the hell” out of you. Again, no fruit to bear from considering to change your opinion on that.
I intepret the Qur’an in the way I was taught by both teachers and my parents, and theirs before that, and I feel that it’s best that I just stick to my firm belief that radicals have misinterpreted it, and nothing can really be done to change that around. Oh well.
June 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Mop – you are from Malaysia correct?
June 15, 2009 at 4:57 PM
if you want to take a stand – call up harley davidson and tell them that you want to go buy a kawasaki since Harley Davidson no longer has any ballls –
try this – (414) 343-4056
then press 4 to talk to an operator – wait a few minutes and then let them know how you feel – be nice and speak softly and if you want to effect change. The operator i spoke with know who Eric Dunk was (so they must be getting lots of calls) and just ask them something like –
“does HD now side with muslim sympathizers (sp?) over red-blooded Americans?” and ask them what will happen when you let your local HD shop know what corporate did?
Tell HQ that you are going to the local dealers and let them know what’s happening – that made the operator i talked with take a quick breath….
Harley-Davidson Customer Service
3700 W. Juneau Avenue
Milwaukee, WI 53208
To speak with a Harley-Davidson customer service representative call (414) 343-4056. Or riders can submit complaints through their Harley dealers.
June 15, 2009 at 8:16 PM
Creeping. I’m not. South of that. Singapore.
June 16, 2009 at 11:52 PM
Guess it will soon be time to play “cowboys and ragheads”. We all know how well that worked for the native american’s. All joking aside. This fear of offending the muslims has got to stop. How many actually buy Harleys? I am all for legal immigration into this country. Hell, my family comes from England and Ireland. (i.e. not native americans) I don’t have a problem with anyone that wants to leave a country and try to live the american dream. I have a martial arts instructor that is currently living that dream. He has a number of schools, invest in our stock market, and get this, LEARNED the language. He loves America. He knows in his home country he would be living a in a mud hut.
July 3, 2009 at 5:46 PM
Hi from Mother England, sorry to hear that you have moaning mullars over there. Adams, was’nt he a founding father ? I can only give you an heads up, if you give in once it will be worse next time, pretty soon you’ll not go a day without hearing a down trodden, socially abused muzzy bleating on about how this wouldn’t occur in their country,or perhaps how the sign of the cross offends Islam, Christ ! what are they vampires ? Anyhow all joking aside, what did you expect the prez’s middle name is an Arab sounding affair,might come in handy when negotiating with the saudis. NUFF SED, Ride free while ye may. peace Caveman
July 13, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Perhaps the problem (with Islam/Muslim) is this …
I can assure you that the true (Fundamental) Islamic/Muslim believer is endowed with this one “true” belief … Every human being on the planet that does not faithfully follow the 7th century teachings of Mohammed must be put to death! … can you say, “Gihad”?
If there are “Islamics” that believe in something other than that then they should split and call themselves by another name .. just like Protestant & Catholic or Methodist & Presbyterian or even Baptist and Southern Baptist.
We would then be able to more readily know who is out to kill us and who might only be trying to take away our fundamental freedoms by whining about tolerance.