Report: Half to two-thirds of Christians in Middle East fled or killed over past century

via Christianity at risk of wipe-out in the Middle East, warns new Civitas study h/t Blazing Cat Fur – the blog whom Muslims in Canada are trying to shut down.

Christianity is in serious danger of being wiped out in its biblical heartlands because of Islamic oppression, according to a new report from a leading independent think-tank.

But Western politicians and media largely ignore the widespread persecution of Christians in the Middle East and the wider world because they are afraid they will be accused of racism.

They fail to appreciate that in the defence of the wider concept of human rights, religious freedom is the “canary in the mine”, according to the report.

The refusal of young Christians in the West to become “radicalised” and mount violent protests against the attacks on their faith also helps to explain the “blind spot” about “Christianophobia” in influential liberal Western circles.

The report, Christianophobia, written by journalist Rupert Shortt and published by Westminster think-tank Civitas, lays bare the scale of the vendetta against Christians across the globe.

They are more likely to be the target of discrimination or persecution that any other religious group and they are particularly at risk in Muslim-dominated societies. Oppression is magnified by anti-Americanism and the false belief that Christianity is a “Western” creed, even though it originated in the Middle East and has been an integral part of that region’s belief systems for 2000 years.

Mr Shortt quotes expert findings that between a half and two-thirds of Christians in the Middle East have left or been killed over the past century.

The report surveys in detail the extent of Christian persecution in seven countries – Egypt, Iraq, Pakistan, Nigeria, Burma, China and India. And it cites findings from the Freedom House think-tank report to highlight the way that Muslim-majority countries are the most hostile to Christians.

They impose the greatest curbs on religious freedoms and make up 12 of the 20 countries judged to be “unfree” on the grounds of religious tolerance. Of the seven states receiving the lowest possible score, four are Muslim.

Mr Shortt traces the rise of Christianophobia in Egypt to the early 1970s when the quadrupling of oil prices gave Saudi Arabian religious extremists the material means to export their intolerant views around the world.

Iraq has also witnessed the decimation of its Christian community amid frequent bombings, shootings, beheadings and kidnappings, especially since the invasion of 2003.

In 1990 there were between 1.2 to 1.4 million Christians in Iraq. By 2003, there were only around half a million. Today there are less than 200,000.

“There is a theory that the idea of jihad is more deeply embedded in Islam than related notions in the other world religions – and therefore that Islam is more susceptible to violent extremism – because of the martial context in which Islam took root.”

The entire Civitas report may be read here.

Related: Egyptian Cleric Threatens Egypt’s Copts with Genocide

 

33 Responses

  1. Why do YOU think Zero is sending all that money?

  2. “Yeap! OBOZO, is definitely funding the extinction of Christianity throughout the world”

    “IMPEACH, OBOZO…NOW!!!”

  3. Most of the time when I am on Facebook someone puts an inspirational picture up and reminds us that if we deny Christ that God will deny us entry into Heaven. Well, I am writing this with my name. American Christians need to start facing facts. They aren’t about pretty pictures, they are about ugly realities. The Muslims who persecuted Christians in their own country are now here to persecute us. As I have asked for years: Arab Christians should have been the majority of immigrants to the U.S. There is nothing in the Constitution that says I have to accept the immigration of people who hate American values. Muslim students need to study in Muslim countries. They have gotten a bad reputation of not supporting their children and Saudi Arabia has never been held accountable. It is time for us to end wars in the Middle East and protect our borders. I understand that immigrants from Mexico for the most part are from good families and are here to work. I am not against them. I know that a lot of good Muslim people are here with good intentions. What I am saying is that the US government needs to be more diligent in protecting Americans. I don’t live my life worried about what people think of me. God is the only one I want to impress. He doesn’t allow me to be afraid of people. He asks that I only fear Him.

    • Actually, Margene, God ONLY asks that you “LOVE HIM!”

      • There are two levels of loving God, according to Judaism. The first level is fear of God. This is not the ideal outlook of course, but Judaism recognises that at least it is a recognition that there is a God.

        From THERE Judaism teaches that the person will come to love God as well, which is considered to be the higher form of loving God.

        The word in the Hebrew bible most Christians are (incorrectly) taught means fear of God, actually is the word for AWE. Not fear. Awe. Completely different words. Why do Christian pastors always teach it means fear? Typical nonsense.

        So Margene may be on the level of fearing God now, and she may love God as well already, who knows? Don’t judge her, it’s between her and God.

        • So…at what point did I “judge” her? I said what you said!

          As for “why” the Catholic Church uses “fear” instead of “awe”, simple…”miss-direction!”…it gives them “power!”

          By what authority does the Catholic Church have to change the Ten Commandments and “other” doctrines of the Holy Scripture? NONE!

          But they did it…right!

  4. Statistics placed in context is a wonderful thing but when put on the table without care only makes for confusion and at worst over simplification.

    To use the same logic as this item we should not forget that the vast majority of Jews in Europe were eliminated.

    As a statement of fact that is correct but yes, as I am sure screams of injustice and the “but” word ring out, we can look at the full picture and realise what actually happened.

    The vast majority of Egyptian and Lebanese Christians that left their country “over the last century” was for economic reasons, not becuase of persecution. That can even be clarified further by the fact that as colonial control finished the business and priviledges given to many groups disapeared or they were offered migration (as they were very valuable). It was pretty clear that Christian locals got better jobs and education paid by Christian colonial powers, that was and has never been denied.

    Most certainly the minority of Muslim countries that have gone extreme (remember that less than half of the 56 Muslim countries actually have Sharia and of those again only a half have it for Family law and is still subject to a secular supreme court) do persecute to various degrees, but still that is only in a few areas.

    The reality is that this article stretches context and reality to the maximum for the purpose of presenting an image of wonton persecution thoughout the middle-east and that they are out to get the infidels (a word that has its origins from Christian Templar Knights and not Muslims). There is also exagerations. It should not be forgotten that the vast majority of Copts living in Egypt though worried are not directly under threat and in some areas (such as in Alexandria) continue to dominate the political and social scene. Also the Copt Associations in Egypt have asked that American Assyrian and Copt communities stop exagerating and in some case lying about so-called honor killings and burings that never happened.

    A last comment. We all know that Salafist and extremist Imams say all sorts of things. The question is – are they sanctioned by the governments or is it freedom of speech? They are tolerated and yes even listened to, but how many here listen to Spencer and Wilders and believe their hate or Horrowitz on his pulpit pushing for the annexation of the West Bank and the enslavary, genocide or ethnic-cleansing of millions of Palestinians?

    Context, we always need context.

    • “context???” Tell that to the Muslim women that have been raped and killed, the Christians that have been “gunned down” in cold blood while attending Church, etc.

      OBVIOUSLY…YOU HAVE YOUR HEAD BURIED IN SOMEONE’S ASSHOLE!

      • bobby,

        a simple question, do you actually watch the news, read some history or journals or do you just look at blogs? so talk about the woman who was raped please and get – you know the word – context. Did you notice say the gang rape in India last week? Which countries have the hightest amounts of rape globally? Actually South Africa has the amongst the highest rates but it is Congo that it is estimated now that one third of all woman have been violated. Now, perhaps you bobby do not know such simple facts, but neither are Muslim countries. The country with the highest wife-bashing per head is Nepal, also not Muslim. Shall I go on or is your laptop still stuck between your bowl and large colon?

        Now, as for gunning down, we all know that there are radical Islamists that do exactly as you said. Nobody denies them. Having said that, most of those occurances are in Nigeria via Bokum Haram though the vast majority of violence in that country is between pasturists versus farmers. So, bobby, with context you will know that there is more to the stories than just Christians being gunned down at church, that country has much more issues and the gunning down is only a part and a fraction.

        May I suggest a bit of education and when you actually grow up a bit, know a bit about the world, then attempt to place logic, facts and yes, CONTEXT into your argument and not look like some armchair ignorant that you obviously are.

        • Your inept grasp of English shows you have NO education at all!

          Please don’t respond on this “blog” anymore as you “prove” to everyone just how “stupid” you really are!

          • bobby, I am a Spanish national, therefore my English is not the subject. What is your excuse?

            The reality is that rather than deal with the subject, defend your points with logic you simply say “go away”. The usual response of guilt.

            Personally I detest two types of people, we in the legal field call the AIIA, i suspect your the former. AIIA stands for the Arrogant Ignorant and the Ignorant Arrogants.

            I will give you another oportunity though, bobby, to redeem yourself.

            Rather than just throwing in accussations, provide a bit of context with your arguments. I talk about context and that just saying “what about the Muslim women that are raped” has no logic as rape is a global problem with in fact the major countries with rape being in fact not even Muslim. What is your response to that?

            How about the other arrogant/ignorant comment that somehow the Muslim woman who is raped (it sure does happen) is somehow the fault of Islam when that woman herself is a Muslim, follows Islam and thus would also disagree with you. What do you say about that?

            To hard, already asking the blog-owner to delete my comments eh?

            Frankly speaking, your weak.

          • and you speak of “arrogance?” hah!

            what else do you call “wedding” a six year old for a weekend?

            I have absolutely nothing more to say to an imbecile of your kind!

            late!

          • Bobby, thanks for proving me correct, good night……

            (no brains AND no balls, what a pissant!)

  5. @ DC frankly speaking you’re the weak sue do intellect. I agree with bobby90247’s stance of the Islamic faction.
    You take the stance of being neutral but negating the obvious tenants of Islam and of its actions of today and yester years.

    Creeping Sharia and other websites have done an excellent job of ferreting out the actions of Muslims and Islam as a whole as in its intolerant and misogynistic nature of its doctrines and actions.

    By you taking the neutral stance you are only feeding the lion of oppression and unjust and cruel unusual punishment of Islam and its sharia law.
    Pictures of Sharia Punishment http://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+examples+of+sharia+law+punishments&hl=en&rlz=1R2RNRN_enUS422&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bD0nT_2FE8yztweo74iiCw&ved=0CF0QsAQ&biw=1017&bih=420

    http://www.omdurman.org/sharia.html#more_stonings

    The United States constitution and its laws are opposed to such an ideal as Islam and its Sharia law. It is not a religion but a political system practicing treason under the guise of religion.

    The following are excerpts of the Koran /Quran to prove my point.
    “Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . [I]f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers”(2:190–93).
    “Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise” (4:55–56).
    “Such are those that are damned by their own sins. They shall drink scalding water and be sternly punished for their unbelief” (6:70).
    4:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.
    The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:
    Men are managers of the affairs of women because Allah has made the one superior to the other. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 329)
    Maududi tells us in his commentary that the Arabic word for “manager” stands for anyone who is:
    [R]esponsible for the right conduct, safeguard and maintenance of the affairs of an individual, an institution, or an organization. Thus, man is governor, director, protector, and manager of the affairs of women (p. 333, note 56).
    Malik (d. 795) is a founder of a major school of law. He composed a law book that is also considered a collection of reliable hadith: Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik ibn Anas: The First Formation of Islamic Law (rev. trans. Aisha Bewley, Inverness, Scotland: Madina Press, 1989, 2001).
    Malik writes:
    The generally agreed upon way of doing things among us . . . about fixed shares of inheritance (fara’id) of children from the mother or father when one or the other dies is that if they leave male and female children, the male takes the portion of two females.
    Maududi explains the rationale behind the verse:
    The guiding principle about the division of inheritance is that the share of the male shall be double that of the female, and this is very sound and just. As the Muslim law lays the major burden of the economic responsibility of the family on the male and keeps the female almost free from it, justice demands that her share of inheritance should be less than that of the male. (vol. 1, p. 312, note 15).
    Here in the US, for example, the inheritance can be divided equally among all siblings, regardless of their gender. No religious law prohibits this from happening in advance. American secular law fits into a modern context better.
    The Islamic community practices taquiyah (to lie to bring Islam as the only way of life to be in power over all others) The women are only let in on part of the Koran in order to enslave and brainwash her in to submission with a male superiority complex using the threat of brute force or by the actual action of it and is trained to be submissive and. Critics are right and fair in their assessment of Islam as in saying that Islam is obsessed with sex. The women should be covered completely her head to be covered as if it is some sort sex organ as if that is all they see of the female never her intellect or her own personal freedom to make her own choices in life and not to be treated as a thing to be owned or bought.
    I say again by not ferreting out the truth about Islime you are emboldening this perverse nature of Islam on the nations that seek individual human rights and of fair justice for which the United States was the first to bring in a constitution to accomplish just that.
    I leave you with this last link to ponder over.

    http://islamreality.wordpress.com/

    The faction of Islam is at war with the nations that I spoke of in my final paragraph to you…………….

  6. @ DC the only reason Islamic countries do not show a higher rate of rape is that it is kept from the international public eye because people of these Islamic countries are not allowed the freedom of speech or to criticize nor in their world people of other factions are not allowed to criticize Islam. They become violent. They are practicing taquiyah (lying) in order to bring about Islam as the only ruling power for the long term. It is a practice that some Muslims have a tested to.
    Every country they have infiltrated that are not a Muslim majority have become bolder and bolder in their attempts to bring Islam as the only power once their population gets to a 2% ratio or more.
    They demand that they have their own court system(Sharia courts) and they have tried to bring and have brought people who are not Muslim in to their courts in England to subjugate them to their own perverse laws.

    Unfortunately England did away with common law and allowed a dual system of governance. Big mistake !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Look at every European country and follow the news stories for instance women in Sweden cannot feel safe like they use to when Muslims were not the growing faction that it is now.

    http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/

    Islam in comparison to the Congo (not to make an excuse for the 1/3 population of rape in this region) that you mentioned is not an International threat as Islime is because they do not hold the power of the wealth of the oil trade. Do not be a sap. They are well organized and getting more organized by the minute……………….

    • Common Sense,

      context please. What was the era, what was the politics of the day?

      The simple fact, though he can be condemned for his decision, the Grand Mufti at the time chose to look for an alley in the effort for Arab nationalism and independance from colonial powers. Like the Bengali and other Indians at the time chose to side with Japan, many Arab nationalists chose to suppor the concept “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. Add to that the growing strength of Zionism, Jews were an increasing target, a sad but real fact.

      “If one is to quote from a page of history then be prepared to open the entire book and face the consequences” – Winston Churchill

  7. Common Sense

    Though you have tried to put a lot of effort, to be honest, you have repated well worn and disproven rhetoric mostly coming from the same crowd. What I see here is the usual mistakes, ussumptions and propoganda fed by agenda groups whom pray on those that simply remain upset over September 11 and participating in two wars.

    I will address in short the problem with your post.

    You used the illogical phrase of “Islamic faction”. That in itself tells me you know little to nothing about Islam. There is no singular faction and yet the word faction itself implies that you are talking about one sector of the Muslim world, which in that case by mistake you could be correct. There are two major groups plus minorities, of those two groups the largest (Sunni) is divided into five major schools of jurispudence and has a number of schisms (factions may be another term) of which the Salafi and Wahhabi are in fact the main issue and culprits in the war on terror, radicalisation and rediculous demands on any society they come in contact with. So if you wish to clarify what you mean by “faction”, I am all ears.

    Creeping Sharia does not at all do as you say. It simply bags Islam and Muslims in general, generalizes and abuses context to no end. There is an obvious agenda to bag, produce hate and it is text book bigotry. If you were an official publication, journal and not a basic blog you would have been shut down by any government via legal suits a long time ago. I am a lawyer, please note that.

    Like with the word faction, your wide-sweeping word and linking pictures of some brutality and giving it a blanket reference to Sharia shows you know little of the subject at all. I will explain it for you. There are many versions of Sharia and each country that actually does have it produces a different version. Using the examples of some of the most extreme cases has no baring or gives context to the reality of all those that actually do have it. Malaysia has Sharia (only for Muslims and only in Family Law), they do not stone women, cut of hands or heads.

    What you may not know (or avoid) is that less than half of the 56 Muslim nations actually have Sharia (thus your argument is already gone) and of those that do, again just less than half have a full and active Sharia court legal system. The majority of those that have Sharia only have it for Family Court and is subject to appeal and supervision by a Secular Supreme Court. Simply put, the 13 harsh-ultra-conservative nations does not represent all 56 and again I should remind you that what is Sharia in Saudi Arabia is nothing like say Sharia in Iran and of course nothing like in Afghanistan (or what the Taliban do despite the Afghan government’s wishes).

    A third example that identifies your lack of knowledge about Islam is your quoting the Quran as to justify your arguments. Rather than go into thelological discussions, the best litmus test is a reality check. As I said, most Muslim countries do not have Sharia and of those that do only have have full legal systems, thus around one third do. So, by that argument, most Muslims (as the most populous Muslim countries do not) do not agree with your view. In general those people I see quoting Islamic texts to justify their attack on Islam are wasting thier time and making them look silly. It takes many years of scholarly study to be able to quote the Quran to justify an argument and non-Muslims who do study it well (my degree in Islamic Study from SOAS and even regular travel in Muslim countries over 20 plus years is even not fully sufficient) will tell you that intepreting the Quran requires at least an understanding that it is divided into three portions, a historical archive, examples to live by and a message. Most, just like you did, quote historical events and claim them to be a message. It is now often referred to as the Spencer-twist. Also quoting the Quran is an academic no-no if you cut & paste and avoid the rest of the Surah and thus put it out of context.

    Inheritance laws are often varied within Muslim countries as well with an equal difference based on if the country is Sharia or not and even then they can be interpreted different (fyi).

    When I see one refer to Taqiyah then I know they are part of the same crowd of islamophobic agendas. I find it laughable to say the least and to be blunt, if you are using it then you have become part of a mythological joke. If you travel the Muslim world, as I have, and ask Muslims about taqiyah (as I have) then you will find that 99 per cent of Muslims will say “eh, what is that?”. Simply put only scholars, imams and most of all western islamophobes who read blogs know the word. It is not as you say, that is not the definition at all. Taqiyah refers to when one’s life or one’s family’s life is threatened you may deny being a Muslim to save it. That is all, nothing more and nothing less. It was used during the initial period of Islam when it was under threat.

    Also you have implied that there are two Qurans, one that is for men and one for women. You said “women are only let in on part of the Koran”. That is obviously incorrect, the Quran is printed and remains unchanged since the time of Othman.

    There is no doubt that the Arab world and many regions in the world are very sexist but it would be false to say that it is exclusive or the religion itself. What can say is that the Muslim world is still very male-dominated but then so is Judiasm and if you look at ultra-conservative Jews you find exactly the same problem and similar quotes in their texts read puritanically. Just look in the news and you will also find that the arguments over the rights of women within even my own Catholic Church.

    I will also take you to task over the subject of rape. I specialise in social justice and have many times represented rape victims. Rape is a global problem, culture based and there is no correlation to religion at all. Sexism, machismo and rape-in-conflict is a very sad and ugly face of human nature globally. Sure rape in many Muslim countries is down-played but it is also the case in many latin-American countries and in Eastern Europe. Rape in most South American nations is often brushed aside as either a guy venting off some steam or “she asked for it”.

    As for monitoring and tracking you are actually quite wrong. For over twenty-five years there have been literally hundreds of organisations and watch-dog committees monitoring rape and child-abuse globally and people most certainly do know what is happening. Having said that it is still the same problem globally that it is based on how many are actually reported to authorities in the first place. As you have more than likely seen in the news, India has a huge rape problem and reporting is discoraged via the families, the victim just wanting to not be smeered to the police.

    I suggest you tread very careful when you imply that Islam encourages rape and that Muslim countries are worse, in fact statistically they are in fact not and rape or child-abuse in most Muslim countries results (whe exposed) to the most harshest of punishments. Just because Wilders or Spencer says so does not make it a fact, in reality it should raise doubt and a question why they said it in the first place.

    You also put a correlation between the problems with Islamic influence in the West and oil money. That is also in most cases a myth. Most Muslim countries do not have oil only a few do and of those only two (Saudi Arabia and Qatar) peddle their money for influence. Saudis in particular do most certainly push money around to build mosques globally and they do often include installing their Wahhbi imams with them. That has created a backlash within the rest of the Muslim world, as they are rather sick of the extremist views that meddle in local affairs. Having said that, it is an exageration on your part regardless.

    That is similar to the Eurabian myth which has in its core principle the idea that Muslims will enentually dominate society via breeding. That was disproven many, many times and is in fact now a laughable conspiracy theory. In a nutshell, second generation migrants regardless of ethnicity or religion have birth-rates at the same level of locals. In fact sedond generation Turkish migrants in Germany and The Netherlands have lower than the national rate AND then we add into the equation, inter-marriage which lowers total figures. Simply put the math does not work.

    The area that we may agree on is the influence, noise and danger of radicla Muslims in the west. Simply put they are the problem and it is via them that islamaphobes use as examples and they in turn use your language to prop up their position with the bulk of moderate Muslims that you never hear a peep from. We must ask why is this the case? The answers are in fact more simple than one may think.

    We in the West shot ourselves in the feet in the late 1970s when we started inviting in “political refugees” as part of a diplomatic face smack against regimes (ie by taking in their political foes it sends a type of message). What we did, though, was in fact take in radicals, extremists, terrorists and criminals and gave them jobs and citizenships. These the foundation of todays radical groups in the West.

    One thing I noticed in my regular trip down to Morocco is that they are still shaking their heads when they see a radical Muslim in London or New York demanding sharia, banning Christmas and even that Queen Elizabeth wear a hijab (yes they did!) and yet In Morocco they do not have Sharia, women do not have to cover their hair and the Malls sell Christmas decorations as well as the large supermarkets sell bear and whisky. What we have is a situation that the radical Muslims over here demand more and are more tolerated than back in their countries of origin.

    The last issue, and it bothers me to, is that the bulk of Muslims on the West are moderate and simply do integrate and wish to just have a life – but say nothing and do not push to save their repuation. When I ask them about it they simply say that it is considered haram (forbidden) to call another Muslim a kafir (bad Muslim or un-Muslim) which is called Taqfir and that they simply want to avoid being noticed (a hangup of September 11). The problem, I tell them, is that the bulk are noticed already and Salafis/Wahhabis do abuse other Muslims as they believe in “taqfir”. Also, as it is with most minority groups, they are targetted anyhow, usually economically the poorer, tend to be forced to live together (the ghetto syndrome) and thus are targetted by racism as well as radicals and often the radicals will say “I told you so” when a racist attack or lost job interview makes them more depressed. That is how they get their supporters.

    Common Sense, you provided no links (other than some context-less pics) and a silly blog, you have mouthed what is old-hat conspiracy theories and border-line bigoted propoganda. You have provided nothing in regards to the reality of the real Muslim world and the only area that you may have touched is in fact the only reason to point fingers at – radical Islamists our countries.

    Also you have shown you do not know Islam itself, nothing about theology nor what the word context means.

    I will repeat myself, if you have a common sense (note the intended pun) argument then put it up. If your objective was to point out and attack radical and militant islamists then I will happily support it, in fact I will give respect to any argument (even if I disagree) that is put properly forward in context and based on reality and facts.

    So far I have seen none.

    DC
    Gibraltar

  8. Common Sense,

    just to add in regards to your linke (Islam reality).

    This is the example of giving credibility to a minority and avoiding the reality on the ground. it is self evident. For example, in Mali the salafis that are part of Al Qaeda there are tearing down ancient tombs of Muslim Saints venerated by the local Muslims and enforcing their version of Sharia by stoning women and cutting the hands of theives. By giving them value you have in fact sided with the minority and assumed that they represent Islam and yet the local Muslims whom have lived their life in peace before hand and are now controlled by radicals are somehow not Muslim and do not represent Islam.

    It is like the fool on the other thread that talks about Islam being repsonsible for Muslim women being raped. Apart from what I wrote above about rape, the illogic is amazing since the girl who was raped was also a Muslim she would argue also that it is not the faith.

    Robert Spencer changed his tactics about two years ago. Instead of blasting all of Islam he has chosen to side with the radical islamists. He does so firstly because he needs the target so he needs them to exist. Secondly by siding with the radical Islamists he encourages their views (to target later) and expand the view that it represents all of Islam. What he now says is that Salafi/Wahhabi Islam is the true Islam and that the rest (which incidently is 90 per cent of the world Muslim population) are either not serious or “bad Muslims”.

    It is a con.

    I learnt many, many years ago that it is important to give credit where credit is due and point fingers to condemn equally when merited. There is nothing more stupid, ignorant and blatantly ugly then lies. Therefore when I see attacks against Muslims via lies, contextual abuse, denying history and simple bullsh*t, it is a crime against logic.

  9. @DC your arguments have many holes in it. First off, you started out saying as a rebuttal ”Statistics placed in context is a wonderful thing but when put on the table without care only makes for confusion and at worst over simplification. To use the same logic as this item we should not forget that the vast majority of Jews in Europe were eliminated.”
    You are comparing apples to oranges with this statement in context to the statistics that creeping sharia website has presented on this particular subject on this page about the growing threat of Islam. To a generalized statement about the holocaust of the Jews in World War II which is without any detail how does that make any sense? It does not, the creeping sharia commentary is giving detail to its commentary be it a blog or not for which you are blogging yourself in return to the other blogger.
    Did you actually read the links that of the CiVitas study? It gave a balanced review of a trend that is growing statistically in current times and is fair in its assessments in relationship to say the subject of growing trend of Christian phobia as in the following quotes from the CiVitas
    “There is a theory that the idea of jihad is more deeply embedded in Islam than related notions in the other world religions – and therefore that Islam is more susceptible to violent extremism – because of the martial context in which Islam took root. However, he does not exclude Christians from committing acts of violence against other faiths, highlighting the activities in the 1970s and 1980s of Lebanese Phalangist militias were dominated by Maronites in communion with the see of Rome.During the 1990s, Orthodox Christians (and ex-Communists who used their religious heritage as a flag of convenience) were guilty of extreme aggression against Muslims and Catholics in the Balkans. The author concludes that it took Christian societies many centuries to evolve a tradition of tolerance towards other faiths. He expresses the hope that Islam might eventually reach the same destination.”

    Secondly, to your comment and I quote.
    “The vast majority of Egyptian and Lebanese Christians that left their country “over the last century” was for economic reasons, not becuase of persecution. That can even be clarified further by the fact that as colonial control finished the business and priviledges given to many groups disapeared or they were offered migration (as they were very valuable). It was pretty clear that Christian locals got better jobs and education paid by Christian colonial powers, that was and has never been denied.”

    Is partly true, but it took colonial control to keep Islam from empowering itself as they had in its reign of previous centuries of fierce slaughter of many nations as in your home of origin Spain whereby was a Christian nation that became ruled by Islam. This I would expect you to know. An account of this slaughter is that there were so many heads decapitated by Muslims they were piled so high that a horseman on his horse could not see over. And I add the Muslims were the most fervent of slave owners.
    France was the last colonial power over Lebanon and to this day has openly let Muslims come in to their country. But of course there is a rising friction within the French community between the Christians, secular law and Muslims to this day. And you do not need to remind me of the Spanish inquisitions and the slaughter of people in the Americas by Spain! All of this history and all of history of religion and its doctrines have caused me to be an atheist. I very much believe in the separation of religion and state!!!!! As far as Egypt is concerned it was under colonial rule by the English and the French and I apply the same principle and history this colonial rule in exact comparison to Lebanon.
    Thirdly, in following each point you’ve try to make I come to your next comment which is completely negligible and false! And I quote
    “Most certainly the minority of Muslim countries that have gone extreme (remember that less than half of the 56 Muslim countries actually have Sharia and of those again only a half have it for Family law and is still subject to a secular supreme court) do persecute to various degrees, but still that is only in a few areas.”

    It is more than half of the 56 Muslim countries that have Sharia law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here is the list as follows and I count at least 37 including Canada and England. Let’s see half of
    56 is 28. You’re off by 9.

    Countries using strict forms of Sharia Law include:

    Death for Blasphemy:

    1. Afghanistan
    2. Bahrain
    3. Iran
    4. Mauritania
    5. Oman
    6. Pakistan
    7. Yemen
    8. Saudi Arabia
    9. Gaza

    Imprisonment for Blasphemy:

    1. Algeria
    2. Bangladesh
    3. Egypt
    4. Iraq
    5. Kuwait
    6. Libya
    7. Malaysia
    8. Maldives
    9. Morocco
    10. Somalia
    11. Tunisia
    12. United Arab Emirates

    Nations that include some level of Sharia (lenient sentences for honor killings, ban on new churches, floggings, etc):

    1. Indonesia (Flogging, Caning; Sharia applied strictly in Aceh province)
    2. Turkey (Restrictions on alcohol)
    3. Brunei (Caning, Alcohol is illegal)
    4. Jordan (2 years or less for honour killings)
    5. Eritrea (Girls as young as 8 can be married, spousal rape is not recognized)
    6. Syria (1 year or less for honour killings)
    7. Djibouti (Sharia law regarding divorce)
    8. Chechnya (Modest dress enforced, Alcohol and gambling suppressed by local authorities)
    9. Niger (girls can be married off before they reach puberty)
    10. Nigeria (Sharia is enforced in the northern states)
    11. Kenya (Ad Hoc Sharia enforced in the east near the border with Somalia)
    12. Gambia (Sharia courts decide all family matters, including for non-Muslims)
    13. Qatar (public consumption is illegal during Ramadan, Alcohol heavily restricted, blood money acceptable punishment for murder, “kafala” law which is also shared by all Gulf states but Bahrain is technically slavery)
    14. Uganda (Kadhi Courts overseeing family and civil matters)

    Most “Western” nations also have parallel Sharia legal systems (for example in Canada polygamy is widely practiced and authorities look the other way, Imams refusing to condemn or work to stop it). Sharia finance is also practiced in many nations around the world. Many other Islamic nations that do not apply Sharia (such as Azerbaijan, Albania, Bosnia, Uzbekistan, and Tajikstan) have large portions of their population who do want it applied or who actively seek to abide by it extra-legally.

    Fourthly, your comment as I quote is completely false once again and I quote.
    “The reality is that this article stretches context and reality to the maximum for the purpose of presenting an image of wonton persecution thoughout the middle-east and that they are out to get the infidels (a word that has its origins from Christian Templar Knights and not Muslims). There is also exagerations. It should not be forgotten that the vast majority of Copts living in Egypt though worried are not directly under threat and in some areas (such as in Alexandria) continue to dominate the political and social scene. Also the Copt Associations in Egypt have asked that American Assyrian and Copt communities stop exagerating and in some case lying about so-called honor killings and burings that never happened.”
    I do not take any of these last quotes of yours as truth. This article does not stretch context in relation to what this website is doing as it has intended to do which is to expose the current Islamazation of many countries in the world and of it’s true nature of existence. What the hell do you think has recently been happening in Syria and Egypt!!! The radicals as in Al-Qaida and Muslim brotherhood have taken over. Christians have been killed, driven out of their homes and apostates as well. There have been news stories of honor killings in this country of the United States as in a father that killed his two daughters as an honor killing because he felt they disgraced the family honor by being westernized by dating Spanish teenagers. Look that one up or the Islamic couple that killed the mother and her children because of her western ways, another words, they did not follow Islam’s laws as in Sharia which is Islam for which the sharia laws were created and inspired from the writings of the Koran and the hadiths. There are a number of stories like that in our country and abroad. Where do you get your new? All Muslims are taught Sharia law but they use taqiyah to lie that they really do not practice this way of life which is passed on by their brainwashing elders. But they have proven already in the European countries that they get more demanding for Sharia law as the Islamic population rises.
    As the younger generation of now is having more contact through twitter, yahoo answers & questions and facebook are seeing more and hearing more of what life is like across the globe. The young people in Egypt before the qoo of the Muslim Brotherhood were communicating how they wanted to have a freer life of expression and freedom from oppressive violent laws. I myself found a website of young people of Egypt who secretly posted with cell phone pictures of hanging young people bound to a poll with their hands and feet tied to it as if they were meat to be roasted at a spit. They were stripped naked from the bottom. They had a live video of young Egyptians of late teens and college age that were male and female in a room with computers secretly communicating to the outside western world in the United States and abroad. I would give you the link but I did not mark it.
    In addressing your comment about the Knights Templar who coined the phrase infidel which maybe so, if the shoe fits they ware it. It was Islam that came up with the idea of holy war. And there is nothing holy about war.

    Fifthly, in response to the following quote of yours and I quote.
    “We all know that Salafist and extremist Imams say all sorts of things. The question is – are they sanctioned by the governments or is it freedom of speech? They are tolerated and yes even listened to, but how many here listen to Spencer and Wilders and believe their hate or Horrowitz on his pulpit pushing for the annexation of the West Bank and the enslavary, genocide or ethnic-cleansing of millions of Palestinians?”
    Stop Bull shitting, the Salafist are Sunni Muslims who make up the majority of Muslims around 85% of the Muslim population. To answer your question about are they sanctioned by the governments or is it freedom of speech? In non -majority countries of Muslims there is freedom of speech but in Muslim countries there is no freedom of speech and in these countries it is sanctioned. The Muslim Brotherhood is the exception they try to hide the fact that they have now put in full force Sharia Law in Egypt. They are practicing Taqiyah so they can get their grubby minds and bodies in the United States and abroad and can get a foot hold to subvert our system of governance. They have conned our idealistic young in this country that they are about goodwill and have all the while patiently hide their true intentions in order to subvert our laws until one day they become the dominant force.
    There have been a number of arrest of Muslims in our country who have been caught planning a terrorist act and in their Mosque rallying together to send funds to Al-Qaeda. The Muslim Brother Hood have been found out recently to be helping Al-Qaeda. There are over 30 other Muslim terrorist groups which you will find the list on this website.

    http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

    As far as your comment about Geert Wilder and Spencer’s hate well you can put me on that list. I do hate the Muslim way for the obvious reason of their Tierney they bring to the world. Horowitz I have heard the name but do not know anything about. I do not like or want genocide or torture but annexing the Muslims to their own country I am for.
    For your comment about faction they are one faction to this country because all Muslims when they feel like they are in a position power believe in Sharia law and the Koran which teaches misogyny and the slavery of the women and unjust punishment to all.
    You have met some nice Muslims in your travel who were cordial to you but what you do not see is the leaders of Islam who lead the show and the people because they are the ones rallying the money and arms by networking with one another across the globe and because of this the sheep of Islam will follow. Whether they are of different sects does not matter all of them have in common the Koran and Sharia law.

    I will leave with this last video and websites to follow for you to contemplate the history of Islam and how it fits in to the context of now…………………..

    http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/video-why-are-some-afraid-to-know-about-islam/

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/

    • Quoting this blog or Geller’s propoganda sheet only makes your argument look silly.

      Gaza is not a country, Aceh does what it wants because the government cannot control it. You also have added places like Kenya but really your talking about local communities of Somalis self-determining despite the local Kenyan law.

      My stats stand, that is desperation on your part.

  10. @DC I made a very very big mistake in agreeing with your statistic of what Islamic countries have Sharia law. All Muslim countries have Sharia Law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    A court that is ruled by one misogynistic male muslim and its lack of a fair trial process as in a witnesses, cross examination, evidence, right to a legal defense (lawyer) and jury for which does not exist in any sharia law court.
    You are clearly a propagandist for lies……………………………….

    • Common Sense (sic)

      Get real, if your idea is living in a fantasy then you can make up what you like but no, not every and not even half the countries have a Sharia legal system or Sharia in the constitution. Go look up something academic, CIA factbook or even Wiki will point out the obvious.

      It must be hard for you to accept that there is life without the rubbish from Spencer, Geller, Horrowitz and Wilders. That must hurt, I can imagine the shock surging through you now.

      I am a Lawyer and am acredited the Spanish territories of Ceuta and Mellilia that are islands off the coast of Morocco. About seven out of ten cases will cross Moroccan laws. Morocco does not have Sharia and like many others in fact have legal systems that are identical to European courts. Why is that? Very simple, they simply inherited and copied the system of the colonial power that controlled them. Thus Morocco has a very French-style legal system.

      You insult yourself by assuming that the legal systems in most Muslim countries are Sharia and that simply being Muslim they are backwards. The UN sub-committee on legal transparancy has 8 Muslim countries at higher levels than some of our own European countries. Also you insult the victims of corruption globally by assuming that corruption equates with Islam and therefore the only form. Corruption is very endemic globally and even accurs in your own country but say in South America or in the former Soviet Union is rampant and yet that is not important because they are not Muslim? Sure, get real.

      A last comment. Though i do not support Sharia legal systems, I read hundreds of legal journals from around the world as a matter of course because of my profession. Some countries, such as Malaysia that does have Sharia (albiet only for Family Law) does have legal representation and very strict control over the process and is subject to appeals. Again, you simply have it wrong, and you exagerate.

      So, now you know a bit more of reality (yes reality can hurt right?), go back and start again.

      DC
      Abogado calificado para el Tribunal de primera instancia
      (La Línea de la Concepción, Algeciras, Ceuta y Melilla)

  11. A lot of non-whites in Asia and Middle East are islamised due to their own greed and immorality. Moslem s infiltrate almost everything just to bully us nonbelievers. It is best to avoid Asia, Middle East and Africa.

  12. @ DC spare me of your week arguments. Morocco which is ruled by a king as well as a parliament is not a true free democratic society. A person cannot criticize the king or they are put in prison. The king has the power to dissolve the parliament. It is a dictatorship! You can call it a monarchy with a parliament and court system all you want but it is still a dictatorship in essence. I’ve read how they have recently just started giving women equal rights with the new constitution and how 40% of the population is illiterate. And I damn well know it being a Muslim country you cannot criticize Islam which is a part of sharia law not to. So much for free speech.

    I am glad they have come this far but being mostly a Muslim country I do not see it lasting for very long because the King has opposition from the fundamentalist Muslims in Morocco and he is still Muslim and was raised to be one. It is ingrained in to their psyche’s to follow the Koran the path which is sharia.

    DC you are the one that has the rose colored glasses on and to answer back to your comment to me that “reality hurts” as if to say I am clueless about all other forms of oppression in other countries and cultures is false. I was already well aware of human trafficing, blood for money and ect… that goes on in the world. I have read more than you know about those types of things.

    I am concerned for my country as well as the rest of the world. But the battle starts here at home with my family for which I am grateful for both.

    I have worked in surguery as a surgical technician for 20 years and than several years ago I starting seen Muslim women patients in the operating room who had mutilated genitalia and fear in their hearts.

    I remeber a patient who was a woman who came in to the operating room with her arms all cut up and screaming and crying out of fear and she said that” god is punishing me” I responded by saying god is not punishing you. I knew then that this woman was being abused.

    After that moment I became very angry about how women have and are being treated in this world and I stayed angry because I just could not ignore it.

    When 9/11 happened in this country Americans were awakened from their sleep of everyday life of going to work and comming home to family and friends.

    Have you ever heard of the expression “Pick your battles?”
    Well I am picking my battle with the plight of Islam by learning what is happening in my country and abroad with the Islamic movement. So I may tell others so they will know and be on gaurd….

    Take care

    • Common Sense (sic)

      You are clutching at straws because you kno in reality you have no case. You have avoided the fact that sharia legal systems or in fact constituional is in a minority, not every single one as you have claimed.

      Also you have low to no knowledge about the reality of life in the Muslim world which is the point I am making. No knowledge, thus no argument.

      I would be careful of throwing the over used and abused word “democracy” which is a sad habit many of your fellow country-men use (and often my own – on the English side). Morocco is in fact the best example of “what is best for each country”. If you asked the average Moroccan if they wanted change, they would say that the only change they want is a better political party system and less mid-level beaurocratical corruption. They support the Monarchy and they know that democracy works when the poltical party system works – which there it does not. 37 parties ran for the last election and most are personality cults and not simply philosophically driven. Giving full constitutional control to the people would only create a shambles, as was what happened when western style democracy was thrust down the throat of most of Africa and to a degree parts of Asia. It is also worth giving credit to Morocco that it has been implementing a slow but steady change of control to the people over the last 12 years and has done so despite the Arab spring.

      Yes woman’s rights are now inshrined in the law, inheritance is based on similar laws to France and yes criticizing Islam “via publication” and “public assemblage” is ilegal. Saying to your friends in the café is not (mind you of course you will probably get punched for it). Criticizing the King or members of the Royal Family is also illegal, has been the law since 1566. It is also the case in Japan, Thailand and would you believe here in Spain. Spain justifies it by saying that you are demoralizing the country and so the law actually states that if you publish a criticism of a member of the family or the King then you must be able to prove what you say in court or be charged with “public contempt inciting rebellion”.

      You should note that the Queen of England, Queen of The Netherlands, Queen in Denmark, King of Sweden and the King of Norway as well as the Grande duc de Luxembourg (but not the King of Spain or the King of the Belgians) can desolve their respective parliaments as well. The difference, of course, is that the outcry, but technically they can do so as much as the King of Morocco.

      You are absolutely wrong when it comes to radicals in Morocco and Sharia (the word fundamentalist only refers to some radical or ultra-consrvative Christians groups). What you need to understand is that most Muslims do not want Sharia and it is not ingrainded and yet they can be vary pious. You assume that if one is very conservative or strong in their faith then they will go down the line of becoming a Salafist and join the Muslim Brotherhood or the like. That is not the case and again Morocco is the best example.

      Do not forget that the Moroccan King is a Sunni of the Maliki jurispudence and that the Mufti ofall of the Malikis globally is the head of the Al-qarayeen (check spelling), which is the oldest contigent University on the planet (the longest that has run non stop). He said that Sharia is not necessary. Also do not forget that the King is also of the Allouite dynesty which means he is a descendant of the Prophet Mohammed and he is given the title of “Protector of the Faithful”. That is not only by Moroccans but recognised by amost all Muslims (except the Salafi of course).

      You almost got it right when you hinted you may understand. He is still a Muslim, they are all Muslim in fact. Salafis are killing other Muslims for not being like them and yet somehow you take the side of the Salafi as being the Muslim and the others somehow are not. That is not only naive and illogical but simply disprespectful.

      If you really do know how the world runds and the reality then frankly speaking you are not showing it. Examples that you see at home or in the media are just that, examples, but you must be careful to see that it represents a whole. FGM, and I have worked on a number of cases of bringing charges against Muslim doctors, nurses, Imams and non-Muslims who have supported that discusting act. You would imagine that I would come to the same conclusion as you but no, because I noted that most come from the same communties, the same social regions AND same cultural areas. FGM is also, by the way, practiced by anamist and even some Christian communities in the same area, which itself should be a clue to you that it is cultural and not religious.

      That you were upset and angry about this event and then suffering 9/11 and then having your soldiers die or be mutililated in war most certainly adds to that. However, do we fall back into the dark old days of when every Kraut, Jap, Gook and now rag-head is an animal for the acts of a few? No, I think society is more mature than that and such a response is what we would expect “from them” not “from us”.

      My beef is extremism and radicalism in all aspects, be it from them or be it from us in response. Do not get me wrong, we are at war against terror and they will try and kill us, the question is who is they? By saying it is the faith in general is not only wrong but immoral and from a strategic point of view also illogical and foolish. It is illogical and foolish because it means those that push that view cannot fight or target the enemy correctly. Add to that, when you start targetting all Muslims then some of them are going to say “screw you, we are on your side but now you can go and f*ck yourselves” simply because you are targetting their very religious faiths. Most Christians will not go all antagonistic but if you attack their or my own faith and say every Christian is a nutjob, evil and not only push it but start causing problems by it, many will start to protect their faith before even looking at why people were saying such things.

      Just one more thing, when you talk about abuse, like child-abuse, spousal bashing, it is a global problem and it comes down often to simply getting away with it. Even so called modern states can suffer that. I was involved over the last six months in a world-wide legal case against a child-porn case that has arrested more than 250 people with most in the US and some over here (six in Spain). They are all indigenous typical middle-class people, almost none immigrants. As I mentioned to you earlier on, rape is global and now India is proving to be amongs the highest in the world and one of the only that has female-infanticide because females are considered so low on the value scale. They are not so because they are Muslim.

      Yes many of the Muslim societies are sexist, mysoginistic but so are many others, it is (again) because they can get away with it or frankly Men do not want to release their hold over power as they have done since Adam told Eve to wash the dishes! Try growing up in the conservative Spanish-Catholic household and you will know who is the boss!

      If you want to pick your battles then pick them against Salafism, Wahhabism and giving migrant groups to much power to keep their links back home. I take issue to any country that allows ANY migrants that come to live but have interest in integrating (not assimilating which is a human rights violation) and continue to involve themselves in politics back home. For the Muslims that live in our part of the world they do a great deal of that, thus allowing radical Imams living in Egypt, Saudi or the Yemen to tell congregations in Florida, Illinois, Birmingham (UK) or Marsailles that their host country (that they wanted to live in) is evil.

      Target that but do not become a radical yourself and frankly speaking blaming Islam itself is not only radical but I consider it to be evil.

      Cheers

  13. Islam is evil at it’s core. Most of the population in Morroco are Muslims! The United States is a Republic with a democracy. It is not a monarchy and not a republic that has instituionalized an unfair human rights constitution as in Morroco that lets a person rule based on family inhearitance to rule without a democractic vote of the people as well as does not allow for critazism from it’s citizens and has the power to disolve the parliment.
    Tell me do you think that is moral ? If you do than you are evil !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    However, if this paticular King of Morocco that is currently in power is about subverting the power of the islamic fundalmentalist faction by trying to hang on to power in order to keep them out of power then maybe Morocco has a chance but as I have said before that is not likely because of the ignorance of the people and I say that as a fact because 40% are illiterate!
    It is very easy to lead people who can be controled by those who are in power of them because they can not even read as to what is going on in the world or even in there own country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!……

    Take care

    • What is the literacy level of The Netherlands, the United Kingdom, the Kingdom of Spain, the Kingdom of Belgium, the Kingdom of Sweden, the Kingdom of Denmark, the Kingdom of Norway, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, the Principality of Monaco?

      All of them are Kingdoms with heredity Monarchs, is it because they are ilterate? Sorry but that is not “common sense” pun intended.

      The fact is a country like Morocco wihout its’ Monarchy would have ended up like Algeria with various military dictatorships and the people in a bad condition. Algeria and Morocco are basically the same in culture and population and land size the big difference though is that Algeria has Oil and Morocco has none and yet Morocco is by far a wealthier country in standards of living, access to quality products, better health standards and much more freedom politically and socially. Salaries are better and the average minimum wage is almost double. The difference is that the Ottomans made it to Algeria but could not cross the mountains and conquer Morocco. Thus Algeria lost its Monarchy (or better put it lost its traditional method of leadership, unity and standards) and lived through coups, longer colonial control and has had marxist governments and military dictators.

      The fact is that there is no better system for countries like Morocco than the Monarchy which is bases itself on tradition, culture and protects it.

      Enough said. Unless you have been there, studied the country or have a strong connection then you simply are talking out of your hat and have no right to assume or presume. A reminder, Morocco was the first country to recognize yours.

    • I should add that as long as you say Islam is evil to its core and yet cannot produce and justification, expertise or logic with that statement really tells me more about youself than anything to do with Islam. You do not travel there, you did not study the faith, you do not socialize with typical or average Muslim families, you do not see what life is like in all of the huge variety of different Muslim societies and yet you have the gall to make such a remarks is simply, again using the phase intentionally, “common sense”.

      Are you a “born again”?

  14. I told you already that I am an atheist and I know about the Misogyny that is in the bible too. Their was no fucking adam and eve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I gave proof in my earlier comment as to why Islam is evil by quoting the koran. It is filth. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So go Bullshit someone else…………………………………

    • As I said, quoting the Quran, like quoting the bible to prove a point is a waste of effort and the net result is confusing yourself.

      As for BS, I find anyone who tries to judge, lecture and especially condemn people, societies, cultures and faith that they have no contact and never been before as simply ignorants. Especially when they base it on blogs and what they think they have read. Even more so, I can see illiterates and people living in controlled environments like the mountains of Pakistan, Afghanistan or in Sudan getting it wrong, now what is your excuse?

      • When September 11 occured some people in Pakistan danced and celebrated, why? Because the media, the political groups and the mosques that they associate with all said for a generation that America was already waging a war on Islam and that “a great man called Bin Laden” killed thousands of them as a strike back. Yes they are ignorant and you can even trace their ignorance. When some of these people were interviewed why you hate America, they say because others told them so, they want to control the world, they are Crusaders who want to convert us and a dozen reasons that they will swear by.

        Call them ignorant savages? I call them ignorant, yes. I also call anyone here who says they read the Quran and thus they are evil, they are after a Caliphate and because Atlas Shruggs or Robert Spencer says so. They are just as ignorant AND they have no excuse.

        99 per cent of those of us who live in Gibraltar can tell the difference, they know reality. We see cultures, we travel, we read all sides of the media. Almost all educated people in the Middle-East, North Africa and in Asia know what life is like in the United States, Canada, Europe and Australia (ie the West). Somehow, a certain group in the United States know NOTHING about the world around them except for what the selective media and other info-sources they have chosen tells them. Strangely, they are mostly from the same groups that also still cannot accept the election results, believe that having weapons that are designed for only military conflict is their right, that they would rather have the economy collapse than accept what the majority of Americans view and strangely believe in conspiracy theories. Such theories include Obama is a Muslim (proven false many, many times), that Muslims are after world domination (proven false time and time again) and I assume crop-circles are made by Aliens.

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