The Islamization of Germany in 2012

Creep, creep. via The Islamization of Germany in 2012 :: Gatestone Institute.

Opinion polls consistently show that growing numbers of ordinary German citizens are worried about the consequences of decades of multicultural policies, as well the emergence of a parallel legal system based on Islamic Sharia law.

Post-Christian Europe became noticeably more Islamized during 2012.

As the rapidly growing Muslim population makes its presence felt in towns and cities across the continent, Islam is transforming the European way of life in ways unimaginable only a few years ago.

Some of the more notable Islam-related controversies during 2012 occurred in Germany, where the Muslim population has jumped from around 50,000 in the early 1980s to more than 4.5 million today.

What follows is a brief chronological review of some of the main stories involving the rise of Islam in Germany during 2012.

In January, German authorities welcomed the start of the New Year by officially confirming that they are monitoring German-language Internet websites that are critical of Muslim immigration and the Islamization of Europe.

In a January 4, 2012 interview with the Berliner Zeitung and the Frankfurter Rundschau, Manfred Murck, the director of the Hamburg branch of the German domestic intelligence agency (the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (BfV)), said his organization was studying whether German citizens who criticize Muslims and Islam on the Internet are fomenting hate and are thus criminally guilty of “breaching” the German constitution.

The BfV’s move marked a significant setback for the exercise of free speech in Germany and came amid a months-long smear campaign led by a triple alliance of left-wing German multicultural elites, sundry Muslim groups and members of the mainstream media, who have been relentless in their efforts to discredit the so-called counter-jihad movement (also known as the “Islamophobes”) in Germany.

In a country stifled by decades of political correctness, the counter-jihad activists and bloggers have been giving a voice to millions of frustrated Germans who see the harm being wrought by the cult of multiculturalism.

Opinion polls consistently show that growing numbers of ordinary German citizens are worried about the consequences of decades of multicultural policies that have encouraged mass immigration from Muslim countries. Germans are especially concerned about the refusal of millions of Muslim immigrants to integrate into German society, as well as the emergence of a parallel legal system in Germany based on Islamic Sharia law.

Also in January, Muslims in Duisburg, one of the most Islamized cities in Germany, clamored for the right to turn empty churches into mosques. All of the churches are located in the gritty Hamborn and Marxloh districts in northern Duisburg where Islam has already replaced Christianity as the dominant religion, and where several Catholic churches have been abandoned.

In Germany as a whole, more than 400 Roman Catholic churches and more than 100 Protestant churches have been closed since 2000, according to one estimate. Another 700 Roman Catholic churches are slated to be closed over the next several years.

By contrast, Germany is now home to more than 200 mosques (including more than 40 mega-mosques), 2,600 Muslim prayer halls and a countless number unofficial mosques. Another 128 mosques are currently under construction, according to the Zentralinstitut Islam-Archiv, a Muslim organization based in Germany.

Meanwhile, on January 16 one of the oldest universities in Germany inaugurated the country’s first taxpayer-funded department of Islamic theology. The Center for Islamic Theology at the University of Tübingen is the first of four planned Islamic university centers in Germany.

The German government claims that by controlling the curriculum, the school, which is to train Muslim imams and Islamic religion teachers, will function as an antidote to “hate preachers.” (Most imams currently in Germany are from Turkey and many of them do not speak German.)

Good luck with that. Keep reading, there’s much more.

52 Responses

  1. Reblogged this on santilisnawati and commented:
    Better

  2. Control curriculum? Yea, right. They cannot even control their own borders with all the islamo-slime pouring in. Nor can they control the high birthrate of these rats of islam. How the Hell do they think their government can mitigate the risks of radicalization? Either they can’t, or really don’t care to but want to create the impression that they’re doing something. It’s all a leftist pipedream and it stinks.

    Ironically, so many Germans seem hypersensitive towards criticizing a minority group because of the Nazi past. Their reluctance on this only enables the rise of another Nazi-like group, the islamo-fascists.

    • Ya Allah give them hidayah in order to understand better and The True of Islam..Insyaallah

      • OOOOH–MY–GOD!!!!! YOU REALLY HAVE NO SHAME WHATSOEVER ABOUT JUST PULLING YOUR PANTS DOWN AND PARADING AROUND FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE YOUR PUNY LITTLE DINKY, DO YOU????? DUHHH!!!! SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW ABOUT YOU AIR-HEAD islamofascists???

        BTW, what part of your “hidayah” have you ever researched historically for accuracy and TRUTH???? “OH HELL, MY IMAM TOLD ME THAT mohammed SAID THAT 3 + 3 = 17. WOW, WHO KNEW??? OH WELL, MY IMAM COULD NEVER LIE BECAUSE HE SPEAKS FOR god, YOU KNOW!!!!!”

        TELL ME THIS, ‘Iman’, WHAT PART OF YOUR DISGUSTING “RELIGION OF PEACE” HAVE YOU EVER CHECKED OUT FOR YOURSELF WITHOUT RELYING ON THE CRAP THAT YOU HAVE BEEN SPOON-FED BY YOUR IMAMS AND AYATOLLAHS, ETC, ETC, ETC????? “WELL, HELL, mohammed wrote it in the koran, and we know that he could never tell a lie.” Hmmmmm!!!!

        mohammed–ONE DERANGED PSYCOPATHIC, CHILD-MOLESTING, SERIAL-KILLING, m/f RAPIST!!!!! WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON????? OH, PLEASE, JUST GIVE ME 2 SECONDS–I’LL TELL YOU THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT islam!!!!! HOW DARE YOU INSULT OUR AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE????? WE’RE NOT ALL IGNORANT DHIMMIS HERE IN AMERICA, YOU KNOW!!!!! WE KNOW ABOUT YOUR AGENDA TO REPLACE EVERYTHING THAT IS SACRED AND TRUE IN AMERICA WITH YOUR 7TH CENTURY GIBBERISH AND FILTH–DICTATED TO YOU BY NONE OTHER THAN THE BIGGEST, FILTHIEST LIAR WHO EVER WALKED THE FACE OF THE EARTH!!!!!!!

        WHAT A CROCK!!!!! Just FYI, this happens to be an AMERICAN ENGLISH-SPEAKING blog and since I HAVE NO IMMEDIATE PLANS TO ASSIMILATE WITH the “religion of filth” MAY I SUGGEST TO YOU THAT YOU TRY FINDING OUT THE REASON WHY AMERICA IS SO GREAT AND THE MIDDLE-EASTERNERS ARE STILL RIDING CAMELS IN THE DESERT!!!!! TRY SPEAKING ENGLISH–I DON’T HAVE AN ARABIC DICTIONARY AND DON’T PLAN TO BUY ONE!!!!!

        P.S. MY CHALLENGE STILL STANDS–TO ANY ONE OF YOU “knowitall” AIRHEADS!!! YOU READ THE BOOK OF JOHN THROUGH JUST ONE TIME–AND I’LL READ YOUR FILTHY koran THROUGH FROM COVER TO COVER. Then we’ll “DIALOGUE” right here, on this web-site, about what we’ve discovered!!!!!

        BTW, I’VE READ THE END OF THE BIBLE–JESUS CHRIST REALLY IS LORD OF ALL!!!!! AND HE’S NOT THE LYING DHIMMI THAT YOUR koran MAKES HIM OUT TO BE!!!!!

      • Go shove a porkchop up your ass! Better yet, shove it down your throat instead!

  3. The idea that Germany and Europe in general will ultimatley be over populated by Muslims is central to the Eurabia concept and simply is a myth with agenda-based undert-tones. That the questionable Gatestone Institute would continue to prostitute what good reputation it had only confirms that view.

    The Eurabia myth’s out-breeding concept was debunked by academics from day one when staticians pointed out that with every migrant group (Muslim or not) the first generation represents a birth-rate from their place of origin but that the second generation trends to the national average. In fact the second generation from Turkish migrants actually tended to be below the national average in Germany and The Netherlands of which in the former they are the major immigrant group. Statistically Muslims outbreeding the indigenous German population can not occur unless the vast bulk are first generation migrants, leave it to subjequent generations only and the figure will roughly stay the same if not shrink.

    As for the actions of radical Islamists and conservative communities in countries like Germany, that is our own self-inflicted wound for not vetting from the beginning immigrants as a whole. None of our countries considered stricter integration policies (not assimilation which is a human rights violation), banning political links back to countries of origin and not accepting foreign funding of immigrant communities. The biggest mistake, parrticularly with Muslim communities, is not followin the example from Muslim countries themselves. If nations like Germany bothered to proactively recruit (and license) imams whom would encourage integration and distance communities from continuing loyalty to foreign Imams and politics in general, none of this would have been an issue. Most Muslim countries control the bulk of Imams for this very reason and almost all extremists are privately funded, unlicensed or clandestine mosques (ie, those Salafis yet again!).

    • You have your stats, I have mine. Realistically speaking followers of islam do not make good citizens of democracies and I do not want my country to import large numbers of people who have no desire to assimilate nor accept our culture nor follow our laws. No statistics you might provide will change that reality on the ground.

      BTW, who pays you to agitate for islam, CAIR?

    • What a pile of crap. Just look out a window, jack. There are thousands of them blocking the streets with the butt in the sky.
      Can you get me some of what you are smoking?

    • Well, being that you are the European, (Spanish) it is you who has to live with those “rosy” statistics, not me. Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt, it’s a way of life for many a European muticulturalist, so it seems. It is far easier to pretend there is no danger than to stand up to it with a brave face. Europe is sinking and all the while, you are perfectly content to fill your boots with the concrete of cultural suicide, dubious research, statistics and wishfull thinking.

      If Spain was concerned with a low indigenous birthrate against the needs of a growing economy and an aging population, with all that that implies, i.e. funding the welfare state, then perhaps Spain should have encouraged immigration from Mexico, Central and South America. Latinos speak an Iberian language and share cultural and religious ties with the indigenous population, therefore the integration process would have been much less daunting prospect.

      I forget however, that integration is, at least to your mind, a “human rights violation” and you are after all, a citizen of a nation who elected a socialist government right after the Madrid Train Station bombing.

      How patently absurd.

      • Learn to read. Assimilation is a human rights violation. If you cannot get that right, what are we to think about the rest of your comments?

        • “We?” There is no “we.” It is YOU and US. Don’t flatter yourself. It is you who is the odd man out on this forum so please get your ego in check.

          • Impossible Randy, as you rightly pointed out, the Spanish capitulated completely after the Madrid train station bombing–to the surprise of the Western world, and they are converting to islam in droves, even in Cataluna, which is surprising.

            The above leftist (muslim?) narcissist is quite unable to control his ego. Much like another egoistic twit we know–obama. You will also have noticed he usually ‘writes a novel’, hasn’t here yet, but just wait. I call his comments novels, because he gets most of it wrong. The same dreary nonsense: “Eurabia is a myth”, we know otherwise; muslims are not really breeding so quickly, yeah right. And of course only he has ‘facts’, the rest of us are “ignorant”

            The granddaughter of a neighbour works in Ulleval Sykehus, the biggest hospital in Oslo; she says it’s hard to find a white Norwegian face among the new-born there, the muslims are breeding like rats there, and in Germany, and everywhere else–including Spain.

          • Peter, your an idiot.

            “We know better” and then you give an example the largest public hospital in a city with a large immigrant city and you ask why so many babies were not “white”.

            By the way, when you start referring to people of colour and “breeding like rats” you know you have branded yourself as a racist.

            Tell me, if you go to a black neighbourhood do you not see black people? If you then count the number of black people on the street and say “there are to many blacks here” does that represent the entire country?

            When you say you “know better”, is it not logic to give examples with some effort?

            If I drive over to Grenada and near the suburbs with all the Moroccans will I not see a large Moroccan community? My sister lives in Rotterdam in The Netherlands and three out of four apartments in her block of 200 homes is mostly also Moroccans and Turks, is that The Netherlands? I visited her mother-in-law in the north of the country and I was the outsider and I am blue-eyed and the only non-frisian blond-grey-eyed person in probably a community of 50,000.

            I am not sure if you can get it in English but go to the EU, German or whatever official stats (and no do not be a conspiracy theorist to say they are falsified), and you will find the simple fact that the main source of increase in Muslim numbers is through direct migration not “breeding” as the second generation grows at the SAME rate and sometimes less. Unless they decide to allow a huge rate of millions of immigrants a year who are only Muslim, Germany can NEVER have a majority Muslim population (or if 50 million convert tomorrow).

            As I said, your an idiot.

    • Eurabia “debunked by academics?” Universities are full of these “academics” you keep referring to, and a viper’s nest of leftists they are; contaminating the minds of impressionable young people who actually think they are so much smarter than their parents, but are in fact brainwashed, leftist zombies.

      You keep harping on about about “Eurabia” being a myth, are you completely blind? You say you live in Europe, do you see only peace and accord there? I sure as hell don’t. I see nothing but trouble in European cities, and while I haven’t been threatened or robbed, friends of mine have been–I suppose they’re liars.

      Get off your high horse, far from being an intelligent commenter, you’re just a very ordinary muslim-hugging lefty who’s got it very wrong but is too pig-headed to admit it. “Germans should recruit and licence imams”, what nonsense you talk! A few minutes perusal of your friendly local library quran should show you why that is not possible.

      A few days ago I thought you might be a muslim, not any more, you’re not smart enough. DC doesn’t seem to be cutting it for you–maybe you should try AC. Oh, and one last thing; learn the meaning of the word “precis”, and apply it to your comments.

  4. To ‘When*Pigs*Fly’ and ‘dad’ — Thank you!!!!! You’re comments to ‘DC’ are classic and ‘right on’! He clearly is just an AIR-HEAD who wants to flap his gums in the breeze. I’ve tried to reason with him in the past only to be driven to the brink of the mentally challenged! Don’t respond to his gibberish and ruse unless you enjoy talking to a stone!!!!!

    As for the islamic multi-CULTural takeover of Germany–I have a first-hand account…. It so happens that I personally used to have an ongoing email communiqué with someone who lives in Germany. We enjoyed a very good dialogue. I was ecstatic that I had finally found someone with whom I could actually practice my German. All of that changed, however, when I decided to forward some of the Blogs from the ‘Creeping Sharia’ and ‘Jihad Watch’ websites. I was told, in no uncertain terms, to STOP sending such incendiary divisive materials! I, of course, apologized in the hopes of salvaging the situation, but have since been informed by the individual that I should delete their name from my address book!

    JUST A LITTLE TID-BIT OF WHAT WE CAN EXPECT FROM THE MULTI-CULTURALIST ELITES WHO SO PRIDE THEMSELVES ON THEIR ALL-EMBRACING TOLERANCE AND INCLUSIVENESS.

    ISLAM — “THE ‘RELIGION’ OF TOLERANCE AND PEACE” — NOT!!!!!

    • That’s what I love, constructive comments based on data and experience….. yeah sure. Rather than cough-up some logic just the usual thug’s “go away” or “ignore him” attitude that to be honest, is said by those who know they are wrong.

    • Regarding your “email communiqué”, of course you were told to stop sending BS, bigotry and hate, that is actually normal. In fact, since you have pointed out that you apologised, that you even know that stuff is ugly……. Thanks for the confession!

  5. Reblogged this on News You May Have Missed and commented:
    The Islamization of Germany in 2012

  6. DC, YOU’RE THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND! AND TRULY THERE IS NONE SO BLIND AS HE WHO WILL NOT SEE!!! YOU DON’T KNOW ANYTHING–I APOLOGIZED B/C I RESPECTED THE OTHER INDIVIDUAL’S RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR OPINION, NOT B/C I WAS WRONG TO SHARE MY OPINION. I JUST HAVE TO WONDER HOW LONG SOMEONE LIKE YOU WOULD LAST IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU WERE SURROUNDED BY THE MURDEROUS CULT OF INDIVIDUALS THAT YOU THINK NEED YOU TO DEFEND THEM! FOR YOUR INFORMATION–YOU ARE AN INFIDEL IN THEIR SIGHT AND THEIR BONE-HEAD IMAM IS UNDER DIRECT ORDERS FROM THE BIG BONE-HEAD himself TO KEEELL YOU!!!!! REMEMBER, “THOU SHALT NOT KILL” IS A CONCEPT THAT EMINATES FROM THE HEBREW BIBLE, NOT THE KORAN!!!!!

    • all-caps does not make your childish rant anymore logical. You are more than correct that you can have your opinion, however, pushing rubbish as facts and nothing more than your opinion deserves to be laughed at and believe me your stuff is laughable.

      What I suggest, and this is with full respect, that you try and put some facts into your accussations and exageration only makes you look stupid.

  7. [...] The Islamization of Germany in 2012 [...]

  8. [...] The Islamization of Germany in 2012 (creepingsharia.wordpress.com) [...]

  9. @Peter35: Yea, he’s a real moonbat that one. Perhaps even a moon worshiper. Either or, he is most definitely a ‘capraphobic bridge dweller,’ to borrow an old Norse fairy tale.

    Of all Europe’s people, one would be inclined think the Spanish (and Portuguese) would know best the dangers of islam. After all, they spent the better part of 750 years driving them out, and we are all too aware that muslims consider Al-Andalus as ‘occupied territory,’ conveniently leaving out the fact that Spain had been Christian since Roman and Visigothic times.

    If he is a leftist, perhaps he is indoctrinated with the ‘Golden Age of Al-Andalus’ myth of tolerance and high cultural achievement. If that is indeed the case, then he is obviously suffering from Inquisition Guilt.

    • Again,

      avoiding the topic, attacking the commentator and putting smoke screens does not bode well for you. I noticed, yet again, that you failed to actually address the topic. Obviously even you know your own ugly BS is wrong.

      Personally I just think you enjoy mouthing off and have no balls for a reas discussion on the topic……..

      Since you mentioned Spain, why not put some facts into your comment. Southern Iberia (there was no Spain, even I have to admit that) was partially Christian and mostly old-religion before the conquering armies of Berbers and Arabas (mostly Berbers actually). So though it is wrong to say they were not Christian, it should not be exagerated the other way.

      As for the Golden-Age, yes there certainly was. As they were lighting their streets, building fountains, improving on Roman acquaducts (not to mention literature, sewerage and the first form of hospitals), most in the North including my ancestors were sleeping in the same building with our sheep and cows. That is a fact, deny that and you simply are a liar and fooling noone but yourself.

      Remember that Al-Andalous was there longer than today’s Spain (still got two hundred years to go before they can claim that). Also note that out of the 800 years of Muslim presence, 570 of those years were mostly peaceful and without conflict or persucution. We can add that it fell down when a new phase of Arab migration came from Damscus that it started going down hill and by then free-thought, poetry, music and the like were represed.

      Randy, your a loser.

      • and you are a historical revisionist (ie liar) The word ‘tolerance’, when used by Muslim apologists, tends to mean “allowed to live by the Muslim masters”.

        http://www.abelard.org/briefings/islamic_tolerance_myth_spain.php

        a quick search of “myths of al andulus” will bring up several thousand articles debunking the Muslim tales

        And in Spain like in other areas conquered by ISLAM very few innovations began with the conquering masters but withthe populations of people they conquered – each of the fairy tales told by Muslim can be debunked by reality- Hindus created ZERO and “Arabic” numerals, they built the Taj Mahal-

        Muslimophiles always trot out the same old lies- so excuse us if we have lost patience in “discussing” the topics you bring- people like you are merely tiresome now and a bore- to be swatted away like flies on the shit you are selling

        • Get a grip, if your not going to be serious and put up joke-sites as some sort of academic link, it does not work here. Also, trying to pull one over a Spaniard is not insulting, except to the moron who tries.

          When you grow up and put material that is actually something other than ch*ldish trash, come back.

          • guess you did not try the search and just conveniently ignored the extensive footnotes on what you wish was a “joke’ site- your ad hominems are what is a childish joke.
            #FAIL for DC

          • Try again, cut & paste never makes a whole. Note my comments about the same to Randy below. Academic BS, it remains wishful thinking on your part as well as that obvious joke-of-a-site.

            History is there for all to see but if you are going to open a page then you have to open the entire book. Accept the good as well as the bad and not only those you chose.

      • DC, “Failed to address the topic?” You failed to answer the question asked by When Pigs Fly. Yes, I pegged you right, you’re a modern-day, would-be Mozarabic dhimmi alright, and you’ve already surrendered to that fate, yet you call me the loser? laughable to say the least and quite excretable. To make the claim that there was no Spain back then is a lie. The Roman province of Hispania predates Muhammad by centuries, and since your language comes from the common Latin spoken by the masses of the time, it speaks of a continuity not even the Moors could erase.

        The Massacre of Granada, 30 Dec. 1066, where a muslim lynch mob stormed Emir Badis al-Muzaffar’s palace, and seized the Berber Emir’s Jewish Vizier, Joseph Ben Naghrela. after crucifying him, the mob proceeded to slaughter 4,000 Jewish men, women, and children, all inhabitants of Granada. This mob was whipped up to a frenzy by an anti-semitic poem composed by a certain Abu Ishaq who penned the following,

        “Do not consider it a breach of faith to kill them, (the Jews) the breach of faith would be to let them carry on. They have violated our covenant with them, (Jews accepting leadership positions in a muslim state) so how can you be held guilty against the violators?”

        You see, your “tolerant” Al-Andalus like any real islamic polity, cannot broker the idea of allowing the 2nd class dhimmi any meaningful positions of authority other than in their own religious communities. The muslims in the community harbor great resentment for such. Joseph’s father Samuel, when he was visier, actually led muslim soldiers in combat. The exception, not the rule, and quite rare in practice.

        Then we have those ‘beacons of tolerance’.from the Magreb, the well-known Almohades who didn’t feel the Almorivids were sufficiently muslim enough.

        Nobody on this forum denies the reality of Christian-induced persecution against both muslims and Jews either. We are all too aware of the Inquisition and it’s stain on Spanish history, as well as the history of Spain’s colonization of the Americas.

        Now that you have suceeded in hijacking the thread topic away from the islamisation of Germany, like the good little troll that you are, it is time to get focused and put you on a diet. But first, one more thing since you seem the grammar nazi, (or grammar phalangist in your case?) it is reasonable, not “reas.” Arabs, not “Arabas.” Aquaduct, not “acquaduct.” Sewage, not “sewerage.” Al-Andalus, not “Al-Andalous.” Lastly, it is persecution, not “persucution.” Could that last gaffe be a Freudian Slip on your part? Hmm, you do suck after all.

        Anyhow, I digress. I will no longer feed the troll, so to speak. Your purpose is to obsfucate and derail the conversation, and since my ego isn’t dependent upon the last word, I’ll allow you the dishonor of having it. No more comida for you, muchachos!

        • Pigsthatfly’s question is do I work for or talk on behalf of CAIR. Answer no.

          As for your language comments, I am Spanish and I live in Gibraltar which also answers the above response, I have nothing to do with the US.

          As for changing the subject of the Islamification of Germany, I kept on topic and people, including yourself, have avoided the key points I have made. That, just to remind you, is that it is based on the concept of Eurabia and that somehow Muslims will outgrow and outpopulate Germans and thus take over the country.

          I have stated that this is impossible unless there is a drastic change in immigration to a point of asking for more immigrants than residents which does not and will not happen. Those statistics given are facts. If you also look you will find that I disagree with current integration policies and allowing any immigrant freedom to be anti-integration.

          Thus, to make it simple, the subject of this thread is a no-goer, trashy and you all try and shoot at me and not the topic by childish name-calling and really stupid assumptions that I am a “troll”, a member of “CAIR”, an Islamist or something similar. Frankly, you all look like classic schoolyard bullies who just do not like your gossip being pointed out as garbage.

          • “I have stated!!” OMG, forgive me for laughing!! We had a woman on this site who said: “You don’t know who you’re talking to”, bad enough, but you’re much worse!! I’ll bet everyone who reads your grandiloquent crap is laughing along with me!

            Gone, long gone, are the days of the conquistadors, so don’t make the imbecilic mistake of thinking you are in any way imbued with their indomitable spirit,in a literary sense. Sadly, you are just another very ordinary lefty, albeit, with a closed mind and delusions of grandeur.

        • Randy you can go backward and forward with links and examples of events and obviously you will get no further than your narrow credentials will get you. In a period of 800-odd years there are many events and none represent a whole.

          Context, not that you care at all, is putting perspective to the events at the time ‘as a whole’ and not singularly. When one studies (have you done so?) one first learns to allow the big picture to unfold based on the entire set of events and then make a judgement. Doing so backwards is not only the lazy way but academically and morally unsound.

          Point one, and remember I am Spanish (and not Andalousi but from the regions of Cinçon and Valencia), though the Romans called it Hispania, there was no Kingdom of Spain until after the uniting of Castille and Aragon and there is NO evidence that a “Spanish” identity existed until then. Even now, Castillians consider themselves as such. My comment is correct, your ‘assumption’ is not.

          I noticed that you half-grasp a concept and then tear it into shreds rather than embracing it. You refer to Maghrebi history and how one group considered the other as not “sufficiently muslim enough”. Therefore you got there but did not get it, as you have somehow decided that the Almohades were more Muslim than their predecessors. That seems to be the trend today, somehow blogs like this one consider that Salafis are the only Muslims and then ignore, disrespect and ignore the rest (and the bulk) and everything that they stand for and have achieved. That is what, to be very honest here, is what annoys me and motivates me to visit blogs like this.

          Back to Al-Andalous/Andalus/Khilāfat Qurṭuba or whatever, you chose to give an example of an event and history recorded such an event. However, what was the reason, did it happen regularly, was it systemic or a one-off? I outlined the history in simple terms and in simple terms remain correct. Until the late 9th century Cordoba was the largest, most modern and most enlightened city in Europe. The vast majority of that time the “people of the book” (Jews and Christians) were in fact treated with respect and at the time also the term “dhimmi” referred not to second class treatement or status but simply as “protected” and certainly different for the purpose of taxation. They were not taxed more (not like say until 1920 when Jews were taxed at double the rate in Amsterdam) but because Muslims were taxed according to Islamic traditions and thus non-Muslims would have been given an advantage.

          Denying the Golden-Age and events in general is simply beeding ignorance. The bad as much as the good needs to be recorded and respected. The fact remains, as any well written history shows, that the history of southern Iberia had it s ups and downs. It was most certainly invaded, but then so were the Visigoths and Romans, and they altered and improved on life.

          Do not get me wrong, I will also condemn additions to history by some Islamists, many of the advancements were not Islamic inventions but simply their passing on or rekindling sciences, but that itself is something great. The libraries of al-Andalous had more books in it than the whole of Europe put together at the time, but that does not mean they wrote them. Many of the great thinkers and philosphers were Persian not Arab and they also argued and were liberal-thinkers often condemned, but nevertheless they were proud, dedicated and faithful Muslims. Also though there was a great age and many of today’s concepts including civil-law, culinary standards and even concepts of hospices and medicine come from this Islamic presence – the fact also remains that the last three hundred years of the Islamic presence was ultra-conservative, often backwards, anti-Christian (not very anti-Jewish) and corrupt.

          Two facts that every academic will agree on with regards to that time. The first is that “convert or die” was Catholic, never Islamic and that they “snatched defeat out of the hands of victory”, in otherwords if they had not been so corrupt and lazy in the end, they would still be there now.

      • Loser, comment above.

  10. I mean DC, not you Randy!

    • I know bro.

    • Well Pete, there is your novel you so accurately predicted, and more than one novel, I might add. Notice how he has shifted to the defensive. He is now arguing from a position of weakness, all the while arrogantly carrying himself as if he owns the blogsite as per comments such as this addressed to Isahiah62, “When you grow up and put material that is actually something other than ch*ldish trash, come back.” He assumes ownership of the forum, and that is why I will no longer engage him. I’ve seen a few others of this type as well. This is definitely indicative of intellectual arrogance and not just a little self-delusion on his part. Thus is the folly of relativism, intellectual flatulence, ‘mucho pedo grande’ if you will. An example of this tendancy of self-delusion is how he interprets your statement concerning the hospital in Norway, as if you are questioning why there are so many non-white faces there. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you didn’t posit that as a question, nor did the grandaughter of your neigbor. Then of course, he attempts to out you as a racist because of your “breed like rats” comment. A cheap shot at those who refuse to be slaves to the hypocracy of political correctness. That is nothing but dishonest ignorance on his part, and in league with typical leftist and islamist claims that anti-muslim sentiment is racism when you and I both know islam is not a race. That is his approach, much like the muslims who claim we insult them, all the while in denial of their insults directed towards us. (As he has in his comments above, quite condescending and elitist in scope.)

      In the end, he is not so much tying to convince us of what he states. He is trying to convince himself. He harbors self-doubt. He is weak and ultimately self-defeating.

      He is after all, a troll. Let us not feed him, just rattle his cage now and then, lol.

      • Note, yet again, of avoiding the topic at hand, which has been my point from the beginning.

        You wish to no longer “enage” simply because there is no substance to engage.

        I am not “rattled”, you comments suggest you are though.

        Let’s make it clear. I have to much work to spend my time on hate-blogs but every once and a while I, twice a year or so, I go see if the same old crap continues and if there is any changes, real substance to some important issues (like radical Islamists and how they most certainly do try and dominate the media over here) and then I “rattle some cages” such as yours, and will when I had enough go on my way.

        It is clear nothing has changed, people such as yourself like to not only indulge yourselfs in boogey-man falicies but encourage your own bigotry and self-dilusion, and unfortunately, miss the real targets.

  11. Islamization is a horrible thing. Anyone with any self respect or have respect for freedom of choice would find that islamization(to those of us nonbelievers who do not want this type of horrible imposition) is one of the most horrible plaque to ever happen to mankind, and should try to avoid islamization, whenever possible. Perhaps, DC failed to notice all the filth in middle east, africa and asia. We freedom loving nonbelievers are forced to tolerate their shabbiness, their intolerance, their nastiness, their racist attitude, their filth, their unfairness. their inhumanity, their horrible pro- islamic supremacist behaviour, their horrible pro- islamic attitude, etc, just to survive in their horrible environment..The West do not deserve all this unkind inferior culture and inhumane imposition from any part of the black world that spread so much fear for their totalitarian ideology and their misrules.

    • wlil, we have had this discussion on another thread. Your over-generalization, constant use of “them” and “their” only makes your agument look stupid. I have failed to notice nothing, your ignorance is simply outstanding, simply because of your own singular experience you assume the rest of the world is like what you lived in. Get a grip and open your eyes.

      Yes we all know that there are Salafists and other radicals, we know there is a surge of ultra-conservatism and like any other political grouping they will try and dominate others. We know that there are 13 ultra-conservative countries that will make life miserable for others. Having said that, your argument is pure exagerated garbage. There arie 56 Muslim countries and they are not like the 13 or the country that you lived in.

      Also you have, again on other threads, continued to use the word “culture” of which is not only incorrect but illogical and academically stupid. Islam is a religion not a culture. It is like saying a “Catholic Culture” because we pray in the same fashion and follow the same teachings. An Indonesian Muslim has an Inonesian culture that is shared with Malaysia but has nothing to do with say a Mauretanian or Malian Muslim – obviously! Tell an Albanian or even Romanian Muslim (yes there are in Romania) that they share the same culture with a Fijian-Indian Muslim, sure, get a grip!

      It might be fun bagging and nagging about Muslims on sites like this because most people here will simply join in but beware, there are people out there, like myself, that can and will point out basic bull-sh*t like yours and like this blog, simply because it is scum to do so. I do not care about taking sides except the side of logic. Argue about the acts of a particular Muslim group and I will have nothing to say if it is based on fact, because in the end the only way to fight Islamists is to base our own fight on truth, logic and accuracy.

      • “us” and “them” the KORAN is quite clear on who is “us” and who is “them”

      • DC, you are the one that look stupid. You are just another pro-islamic scums who knows no better. Don’t try to imtimidate me here. . You are the ones that is illogical. You and your pro-moslems can continue to talk disgustingly and continue to be in deniial. You are infact blindly and ignorantly taking sdes by attacking me here. Luckily many people are not as ignorant as you. Don’t try to threaten me here. I know your nasty tactics. You appear to have lots of socalled facts but in reality in translates into nothing in real world. Your ignorant rant failed to convince me. Luckily more and more people are not as ignorant as yourself. Even those oridinary moslems continued to talk in a disgusting manner just to win some votes. it is not only salafis that caused problems, as you tried to imply. I can assure you that it is not fun talking or criticising moslems or islam because of the unwarranted imsults from disgusting pro-moslems like you and from moslems supremacist everywhere. I should not be afraid of people like yourself. You can continue going around putting people down but you cannot run away from reality. There are in fact many unpleasant non-white culture and moslems culture is another one of the most unpleasant non-white culture. whether you are wilfully ignorant about it or just denying it to deceive any ignorant people. Unfortunately, I am not one of the ignorant people that you are trying to convince. I am not interested in their islamic politics or their islamc culture or their islamic faith or fighting anyone. I am only interested in defending freedom, telling the truth, criticising what I noted and the present reality. I am not here to talk about their islamic faith or or their islamic history.

      • DC, you are the one with ilogical hate, illogical conclusion and illogical assumption . As far as I know you points are just iilogical that is more suited in those pro-moslem hate-filled blogs. Even if you are really fighting islamist as you said, you are just protecting their supporters with your oftentimes illogical comments.DC, I have to say that you are as offensive as those pro-moslems who falied to respect us nonbelievers. There are in fact so many pro-moslems groups and their intention is one of the same and their level of intolerance and hate is also the same, whether you know it or not. And by the way, my opinions are not garbage though you may put it out, if you like. It is none of my business who you are supporting, but it is nasty of you to so intolerant of criticism of moslems in general.

        • wlil, please don’t feed the troll. he will eventually either go away on his own, or be cast into the vile purgatory of Spam after sufficiently making a nuissance of himself. To the socialistic troll’s mind, it is hard for them to conceive of a blogsite such as this as the intellectual property of it’s creator, hence their drive to make an ass of themselves.

        • wlil, please remember this my friend, arguing with a troll is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon will eventually knock over the pieces, shit on the board and declare victory. Fortunately for us, most people recognize these patterns and see his increasing desperation as he still attempts to engage me. By their example, they do more damage to their own cause than they will ever know. That is how narcissism operates and believe me, this fart smeller..er..smart feller is shoc full of it grand mal, not to mention full of runny brown matter (mierda) too.

        • Wlil, Randy and Isaiah, well said. I thought Abigail was a jaw-dropping narcissist, but this AC-DC twerp is even worse. Maybe ‘it’ will go away if we ignore it.

  12. Did somebody fart?

  13. ¡Wow, otro pedo grande! That one is gonna itch when it dries!

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