Fitna The Movie – Analysis and Reactions

(Feb 2009: Welcome new readers and those who are researching Geert Wilders’ ban from the UK, and his short film entitled Fitna)

Scroll down for updates – latest news last (updated April 16th)

New versions here: EnglishDutch — Read the transcript here

Fitna has returned to removed from Liveleak again – this time for copyright violations – if every video with copyright violations were removed from LiveLeak it would be a pretty empty site…It’s back – has that Islamic threat gone away yet?

[original post] By the time most of you read this, you’ll have seen Fitna, and the critics will be railing Geert Wilders, claiming he is Islamophobic, racist – although Islam is not a race, whining about the Mohammid cartoon twice depicted, and many other things. It remains to be seen if there will in fact be…fitna.

For those familiar with the reality of Islamisation, the movie was nothing new – verses from the Qur’an supplemented with words directly from influential Muslims throughout the world including Iranian President Mahmoud A., newspaper headlines describing acts committed by Muslims, the voices of victims of Muslim terror and indoctrination, factual statistics, and Geert Wilders call to action.

Just like stopping Nazism and Communism didn’t mean killing all Germans and Russians, nor does stopping Islamisation of the West mean killing all Muslims. Undoubtedly, the pundits will spin that wildly and will claim Fitna is inaccurate, hate speech, and that Wilders must be stopped.

For their benefit, Creeping Sharia has put together a transcript for easy reading and analysis of the actual words in the film (see the film credits for full list of sources). We’ve also counted and categorized the words since we had them available and also because Muslims and appeasers typically deny the Qur’an is a source of such hatred. By the way, when did Islam rule ‘the world‘?

Over the next few days and weeks we’ll hear again and again how Fitna is a “graphic film depicting Islam as a religion of violence” when in reality Fitna depicts Quranic verses and Muslim leaders that advocate violence, and graphic acts of violence perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam. Slight difference. Here’s the breakdown:

Creeping Sharia Analysis of Fitna Word Count

Wilders defends Fitna

Dutch PM – Islam does not equal violence disagrees

LiveLeaks’s Statement“LiveLeak – Redefining Bias” Kudos to LiveLeak for allowing the posting of Fitna, but check out the dhimmi-like caveat: “ has a strict stance on remaining unbiased…We in no way endorse Geert Wilders, his views, nor the views expressed within Fitna…some of the messages therein are personally offensive…”

So much for the self-proclamation of “unbiased”, and “maverick” as labeled by a WAPO dhimmi. Which of Geert’s 101 words did LiveLeak find offensive?

“Islam is something different, has to be treated differently, as something entirely beside our own culture and values” – Geert Wilders [end of original post]

– – – – – – – – – – UPDATES START HERE – – – – – – – – –

LiveLeak Removes FITNA – death threats from Muslims no doubt

Westergaard to sue Wilders? “My drawing shouldn’t be connected with something I don’t know about…It was done as a protest against terrorism and shouldn’t be used in a general campaign against Muslims.” “Wilders has the right to make his movie but he has no permission to use my drawing…This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It is all about copyright…I won’t accept my cartoon being taken out of its original context and used in a completely different one.”

Jihad Watch & Dhimmi Watch – Iran & Pakistan lodge protests

YouTube bans Jawa account over Fitna LA Crimes – “muted response” juxtaposed with “JIHAD TEGEN WILDERSWilders Blog – when you read some of these condemnations you seriously have to ask – has everyone lost their fucking minds? Is the world really submitting to Islam?

“Our call to Muslims abroad is follow our strategy and don’t frustrate it with any violent incidents,” Mohammed Rabbae, a Dutch Moroccan leader, told journalists in an Amsterdam mosque.

Mo, we really hate to ask but, is there a copy of that strategy available to the infidels? Dailymotion has Fitna – registered by, possibly hosted/owned by Network Solutions Phone threats against Danish troops in Iraq SOLO-International Press Release: Islamofascism’s Triumph Temporary Jihad Watch – Fitna “could be a film by the Mujahideen” If Organized Crime Ran The World… Shia and Their Crimes – Part I of IV – if any Russian viewers care to provide a synopsis of this film, who made it, or more info, it would be greatly appreciated ‘Fitna’ Debut Exposes Europe’s Muslim Agenda Robert Spencer – Fitna: Insightful and Inciteful LiveLeak reinstates Fitna – English & Dutch Wilders Interview with SPIEGEL Wilders to Change Fitna – will remove the Mohammid cartoons and replace them with another Mohammid cartoon – Westergaard is a pussy after all; will replace the rapper photo with real van Gogh killer’s photo; and include reference to interviewer heard in van Gogh interview “Wilders Liable in Case of Islamic Boycott” – and Mohammid / Quran is liable for jihad…but the UN and other dhimmi’s will never realize it LiveLeak – milking the shit out of Fitna – Wilders removes for copyright violations Indonesia may ban Utube over Fitna – never mind all those jihad videos Moderate Muslim response in pictures Yes, we called Westergaard a pussy earlier for taking legal action against Wilders – and we were right – check out his latest cartoon (and below)

01020113655900.jpg geert_wilders2.jpg

Video – Muslims Rally Against Fitna – notice all the peaceful signs

Wilders & Dutch Parliament confrontation

Moderate Indonesian Muslims damage Dutch Embassy

Youtube Warned by Indonesia

Inst for Ethics & Emerging Tech – an outsiders view

A Muslim Response – I’m Not the Least Bit Offended – “Footage of a hijacked airplane slamming into the World Trade Center on 9/11…Images of the mangled corpses of victims in the 2004 Madrid train bombings…it doesn’t work…these images lost their impact long ago. We’ve seen them in the news a thousand times…” (apparently you can take a person out of the culture, and even make them a writer, but you can never take the violent culture out of the person)

Wilders’ Campaing to Save the West

Islamic World’s Image Needs Change – no the image isn’t the problem

Check out Gates of Vienna for Fitna translations in English, Czech, Dutch, Farsi, French, Italian, Tagalog, Polish, Russian, Romanian, and Spanish with more to come

Ibn Warraq: Geert Wilders is a hero of our time

Hirsi Ali slams Dutch Govt Over Fitna

Fighting Dutchman – Wilders Battles Radical Islam

ABC smears Wilders as Racist

Protestant studying Islamology – Jihad a communal conflict rooted in social injustice and poverty

Iranian NGO to make anti-Christian film ‘Beyond Fitna’

Jews, Zionists behind Fitna

Fitna Isn’t anti-Muslim

Silencing the People

Iranian Protest at Dutch Embassy – Only about 40 students, 25 guys and 15 women, showed up for the outing – wonder if Mahmoud’s cameo in Fitna had anything to do with it?

Free Speech Roundup – Turkey, Yemen, Saudi, Indonesia blocking blogs, videos, etc.

Fitna not first movie Muslims raged over – 1977, Muslims siege Washington, DC building and demand the then recently released film Mohammad, Messenger of God, to be banned

New version of Fitna now availableEnglish – – – Dutch

Dutch court refuses to ban Fitna

Wilders Does Not Incite Hatred – Says Judge

Wilders Responds to Decision“I always believed that within the context of political debate … I should be allowed to say what my opinion is, which is that I see the danger and threat of Islam to our country and the West,” he told The Associated Press.

Sudan Refuses Dutch MP – even though the Dutch donate $140 MILLION EUROS ANNUALLY!

Religion of Peace destroys theaters in India over Fitna

Indonesia draws most Fitna viewers

Indonesia Apologizes & Lifts Youtube Ban – seems the natives got a little restless…Indonesia will still block links to Fitna

The condemnations are still trickling in – Malaysia and Uzbekistan join in on the Fitna protests

500 Paki lawyers protest against anti-Islam Dutch film – passes resolutions on Fitna & cartoons

Muslim countries at UN call for action against Wilders

(read some of the comments below…apparently the Koran has an expiration date)

48 thoughts on “Fitna The Movie – Analysis and Reactions

  1. What I deplore most is that the moderate Muslims don’t speak out loudly enough against these neo-Nazi barbaric acts. If you are a moderate Muslim, speak up now! Let me quote the poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller, a survivor of Dachau Nazi concentration camp, who described the political apathy of German intellectuals to the Nazi rise to power:

    In Germany, they came first for the Communists,
    And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
    And then they came for the trade unionists,
    And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
    And then they came for the Jews,
    And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
    Then they came for the Catholics,
    And I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
    And then . . . then they came for me . . .
    And by that time there was no one left to speak up.


  2. I appreciate your making the important distinction, which bears repeating: “Fitna depicts Quranic verses and Muslim leaders that advocate violence, and graphic acts of violence in the name of Islam.”
    Where are the “moderate” Muslims? After seeing what happens to those who question or criticize Islam and the Qu’ran, I can imagine that they are totally terrified to say or do anything!

  3. .
    GO Mr. Wilders! Great job! Short and to the point, very powerful!
    It will be interesting to see how many Dhimmi politicians will watch this. Eventually, most probably will.

    SPREAD THE WORD to the world everyone!

    All freedom starts with freedom of speech. If there is no freedom of speech, there will be no freedom. The Christians and Jews don’t riot when somebody makes fun of Christ or Jews. People must learn to be civilized. Rioting MUST not be tolerated.

    That’ll be great if there’s not much rioting, how very mature that would be. Geert Wilders is a hero spreading the painful truth. He MUST be protected!


  4. Yes, right. BUT.

    Isn’t there plenty of barbarism in the holy scripture of christians as well? Look for the evilbible server to get jaw-dropping quotes. Somehow (in the XXI century) this does not translate to christian violence. The root of islamic violence cannot easily be attributed to Quran. Or perhaps to put it differently – as with christians – it is possible to be a follower of a religion with a horrible holy scripture and still create a fairly peaceful society and international relations.

  5. Pingback: Liveleak Pulls Fitna « Nice Deb

  6. Misha,

    You got one thing right – we don’t see violence from Christian’s who quote the Bible as their source of justification or inspiration – even the most frequently and incorrectly used references of Timothy McVeigh being a Christian terrorist – except McVeigh himself stated he was agnostic and never once claimed that he killed for God…but opportunists make that false assessment constantly..however, if you are so confident of the barbarism in the Bible and its direct relation to the active participation of influential Christian leaders across the world referring to Biblical verses to justify Christianity taking over the world or defending land, as well as Christians flying planes into buildings, committing suicide bombings, car bombings, beheadings, honor killings, terrorist attacks on a daily basis…calling for the destruction of Israel or any country, protesting violently over cartoons and movies of Christ, or threatening violence every time someone says “Jesus Christ” or “God Damn” – then we may have a starting point for equating the Bible and the Koran…but then you’ll have to point to verses in the Bible that call for the destruction of non-Christians and call Muslims for example, apes & pigs…after that we can address human rights under sharia…if that’s not possible just show us one peaceful Muslim society that allows non-Muslim faiths to live freely, flourish and grow AND has a peaceful international reputation…if you can do that then we strongly suggest you produce your own film

  7. Dear Creeping,
    with all due rexpect to you. from what i read in your last post. your knowledge of islam, muslims and the Qurran is insignificant. before i start i just wanted to let you know that we believe in jesus christ as one of the mightest messengers of god, we believe is his meraculous birth and also believe that he gave lives to the dead by god permission and heals those who were blind by god permission. in fact, no muslim is a muslim if he doesnt believe in jesus. the only difference between islam and christianity is that they believe that jesus is god which we dont believe but rather we believe him as a messenger, this is derived from the fact that the muslim should believe in all the messagers equally because they came with the same message which is to believe that there is no god to worship but allah. my point is that we dont hate the christians and the Qurran clearly states that killing one innocent human being is like killing the the whole of humanity. these verses that you talked about killing the infidals and the unbelievers where revealed at the time of the battels 1400 years a go where muslims and the jews used to have aggreement not to fight. but the jews breached the aggrement and god command musilms to fight with them. so basically these versus dont meas the christans of this time. the prove i can give you is the christians in Egypt. those people used to live in the Islamic empire for many ages and no harm came to them and no one forced them to embrace islam. you see, to analyse a believe or a religion, you have to look at the history of this reliegion and how this religion grew up in short period of time. you see islam is now one of the fastest grewing religions in the world. as thousand of non muslims embraced islam in Europ and USA after 9/11. now that makes you wonder, if the religion teachs violance to people and make thim terrorist, why do you find this amount of people emracing it. go to the interent and see the recordes of the number of people who embrace the religion every year. you see there is a major misconception here about islam and thanks to media for that. final words. to understad the relgion in the right perspectives, go back to the main sources which are the Quran and Hadith and read them properly.


  8. with all due respect to you, you are preaching to the wrong choir – we have not interpreted anything – we simply report on spread of Islam in the west, and report on the crimes committed by Muslims and the fact that THEY point to specific verses in the Quran and Hadith as justification from Mohammid…so like many well-intentioned individuals you are wrongfully condemning us because we report on factual events – if you want to change the image of Islam and Muslims your efforts would be much better spent lecturing those Muslims who are inspired to kill in the name of Islam and Mohammed and tell them that their “knowledge of islam, muslims and the Qurran is insignificant”…also did you fail to mention Christians living in Egypt had to pay Muslims a tax for their protected status? Jizya yeah? It seems you are rewriting history to make your points…and final words – you know that piece about killing one “innocent” human being? innocent is quite subjective…can you convince Islamic scholars to rewrite that without the “innocent” caveat that readily justifies killing anyone?

  9. dear creeping,
    i can really sense you being angry. my response not to start a war between me and anyone. my point is i want you to reason with me. you still missed my point and i can clear the misconception that you still have. i understand your anger. i know many booming incidents have been taken place in many part of the world. but if you have some muslims group who have used the name of islam in killing innocent people, i tell you my freind in the islamic concept, this is not what the islam all about. the religion is totally against the killing of innocent people, now because some islamic groups claim to do any booming under the name of islam. i tell you, if there intentions are to protect the religion… they wont do such job. they would rather live with the other harmonessly. my point is that i myslef dont agree with them if they do such thing. and its not only my point of view… lots of scholars stats that this act is forbidden in isalm. now as for the christains in Egypt, your poor knowledge of history took place, you see my freind the muslim asked the christans to pay the tax to protect them and give them safety, thats beside keeping there churches and temples. this is a freedom.. it was fair because the amount of jezya was insegnificant.. in return they had full protecton and right to practice their religion… this is not my view… these are historical facts. you see we cant blame the whole muslims for the act of one group of them.. hitlar was a bad leader christian and killed millions of jews… but you cant blams the whole christianisty for that. this is how you should judge people.

    please… place your anger aside and reason with me… so we understand each other.. i’m not trying to cover up for my religion… i’m presenting what the religion really states.. just to clear some misconceptions that you have.


  10. Truth Exposed – thank you for clarifying that without paying jizya, Christians could not have lived peacefully in Egypt – we agree on that. Check this site for a good article: Muslim silence on anti-Christian persecution written by a Muslim.

    Was Hitler a Christian? By birth maybe but he rejected Christianity as an invention of the Jew (and Bolsheviks). Besides that small omission on your part, a war was waged against Hitler and the Nazis (of whom the Muslims were aligned) to end that movement. Can we thank the whole of Christianity for eliminating the Nazis?

    Rather than resort to the typical condescending tactics and presumption that we are angry – you should redirect your efforts to your fellow muslims who make booming incidents. We think your fellow Muslims are the angry ones.

  11. Dear creeping,
    i thank you for the article that you have provided. but i would rather you do your part and invistigate why the muslims are angry? because i really know the answer straight away when i watch that movie “Fitna”. believe me, if the movie speaks the truth. muslims wont be angry. they would rather be satisfied..

  12. The Muslim is angry because the non-muslim has violated the rules of dhimmitude, specified in the Pact of Umar.

    The provision that was violated is

    – We (Non-Muslims) shall not teach the Qur’an to our children

    – We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.

    The stipulation of adherence and consequence of violating the pact is:

    We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct.

    If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition.

    Thusly, since the Europeans have violated the pact, the protection (dhimmi) from islamic violence is now void and they can be attacked.

  13. You are quite welcome T/E,

    So now you have clarified that Christians indeed must pay jizya to live safely in Muslim lands, and you have determined that it is Muslims who are angry. You actually are quite reasonable and thank you for sharing this information – it adds significant value for our readers.

    As a Muslim maybe you can tell us why Muslims are angry and what will make them satisfied.

    If you are going to suggest that it is something in the West that has made them angry please note that the Quran was written, and jihad waged, long before any Western culture, especially the US, was established. Muhammid never knew a United States existed so that excuse is not feasible but we do hope, as Hussein Obama would say, that you can shed some proverbial light on the subject.

  14. Fitna, it is the most sensationalist shock and awe piece of crap I have seen in a long time, on par with stuff regurgitated right out of Fox news.

    Even I, an ex-muslim turned atheist, managed to deconstruct every single argument in that movie as it was being made on the screen in front of me.

    A very simple example of the lies and the deception in that movie:

    The first verse to be mentioned in the movie:

    Quran – Surah 8, verse 60
    Prepare for them whatever force
    And cavalry ye are able of gathering
    To strike terror
    To strike terror into the hearts of the enemies, of Allah and
    Your enemies

    This is a verse set about 14 centuries ago. It was regarding the coming war between the first Muslims and the pagans who threatened to wipe / kill all Muslims. The Pagans outnumbered Muslims by a ratio of 10:1. The point of the verse is to set up for a psychological warfare, where by a show of force could strike fear into your enemy. Very similar to what the U.S. is doing showing off with all those warships not too far from the coasts of Iran. But of course to the typical retard watching the movie (E.g trumetal) he would read the word terror, and watch the slidshow showing 9/11, and make the 1 year old level conclusion: Verse talks about terrorism = 9/11 is terrorism, therefore Quran is inciting terrorism.

    “QURAN – Surah 47, verse 4
    Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks and when ye have caused a bloodbath
    among them
    Bind a bond firmly on them”

    Again, thats talking about the wars that erupted just as the earlies Muslims tried to establish themselves, as the Pagans tried to exterminate them. I don’t know about you, but if someone is “smiting my neck” I’d smite right back at him.

  15. Any how, I have a lot of grudges against, not only against Islam but all other religions. I don’t like the work of other anti-theists out there, but any religion in my book, is a falsehood. Keep cheering to your own demons, and claiming other people’s demons are worse. It never ends. But for the retards that think:

    “Zomg I hate Islam, this movie talks shit about Islam… Yuzzzz It must be the greatest movie I ever watched! Amirite?”

  16. Medfreak: If Fitna is the most sensational thing you’ve seen in years, then really you should watch “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West”

    As far as your attempt to deceive us.. dont waste your time.

    Why dont you tell the Jihadis that they’re wrong.

    It’s funny how perverse people like you ignore the actual violence Muslims are doing and instead attack the people who are the targets of that violence.

  17. “As far as your attempt to deceive us.. dont waste your time.”

    Thats the best retort you got? “Deceive us”? Thats sad. Try to read and understand, instead of listening to crap on one side of the screen, and crap on the other side of the screen and making a 2 year old connection.

    “It’s funny how perverse people like you ignore the actual violence Muslims are doing and instead attack the people who are the targets of that violence.”

    It’s funny how you ignore the source of the violence, which is the right wing nutters in the white house going right and left destroying whole countries and oppressing many civilizations, and yet you expect them to sing back to you like it is ok.

    If there is any violence in the world, it is only secondary to the insane amount of intervention and injustice the United states / the west has cause to that part of the world over the past half century, way before you ever linked terrorism to Islam.

    Read the Bible, read the old testemant, read telmud, its all a bunch of violent inciting babble.

    The Quran, the Bible, the torah are not the sources of violence in this world, no matter how wrong religion is.

    Violence is the soucrce of violence, and for that, the United states excels in that department, killing more muslims in a month, more than all the americans killed combined secondary to all acts of terrorism in the past few decades.

    Hmmmm…. I wonder why they are pissed.

  18. Your response and explanation for the cause of Muslim done by violence is inadequete.

    Tell us your theory for the causes of Muslim violence that resulted in the deaths of:

    60 million Christians from the Middle East and North Africa and Europe

    80 Million Hindus in India

    10 Million Buddhists around Afghanistan

    120 Million Africans

    Otherwise, STFU. No one believes the lies of Muslims.

  19. ooops

    Your response and explanation for the cause of Muslim done by violence is inadequete.


    Your response and explanation for the cause of violence done by Muslim is inadequete.

  20. “Tell us your theory for the causes of Muslim violence that resulted in the deaths of:

    60 million Christians from the Middle East and North Africa and Europe

    80 Million Hindus in India

    10 Million Buddhists around Afghanistan

    120 Million Africans ”

    Rofl, you make statistics out of your ass now? Citations, or its meaningless. And it better be something slightly more than sensationilist crap you are making.

    Some people automagically forgot the crusades here.

    Still waiting for you to try and explain why this Fitna movie of yours everyone here is hailing as the Jesus of movies, did nothing but commit blatant lies.

    So far you have not responded to the 2 verses I have explained in their proper context, all you do is attack and attack and attack mindlessly.

    Otherwise STFU, no one believes the lies of right wing nutters.

    It’s funny, but Freedom of speech works both ways, and I love it when it bites you in the ass right wingers.

  21. The Crusades were the military response to the Muslim conquest of Syria and the Levant , and North Africa, and Spain.

    After 400 years of Islamic war against the Western world, the Europeans finally sent a unified response after desperate appeals from Constantople. And you call this what? A historical injustice?

    Liar, why do you remove the context of the crusades?

    As far as the Koran goes.. I dont give a shit what it means. I’m not the one comitting violence in its name.. complain to the murderers in your religion. Why are you asking me what it means?

  22. Wow, you just ignored my whole reply and went to the crusades? I didnt even put them in any context to start with let alone lie about it.

    “As far as the Koran goes.. I dont give a shit what it means. I’m not the one comitting violence in its name.. complain to the murderers in your religion. Why are you asking me what it means?”

    Haha, you don’t wanna know what it means, yet you still want to say that the movie showed verses that explained pictures happening in the movie? Now I understand, we got another right wing nutter who likes to just push erroneous ideas as facts to rally anti-islamism. Learn to know what good journalism is.

    Funny how you just threw a bunch of numbers, and then ignore finding any real citations to where the hell you got them from…

    You want numbers? There are 1.5 billion Muslims on earth, thats 25% of the this world’s population, and you aren’t gonna get rid of them any time soon, no matter how much your bigoted mind wants them to just vanish.

    Fact of the matter is, more Muslims are being killed every month by the west, than what terrorism is claiming over the past decade.

  23. I ignored your whole reply by responding to two of its points?

    Dumb ass, you make no sense.

    As far the numbers I gave here you go. Let me preemptive tell you, if you disagree with them, dont bother unless you give us the numbers you think they should be:

    FP: Can you touch briefly on the history of political Islam?

    Warner: The history of political Islam starts with Mohammed’s immigration to Medina. From that point on, Islam’s appeal to the world has always had the dualistic option of joining a glorious religion or being the subject of political pressure and violence. After the immigration to Medina, Islam became violent when persuasion failed. Jihad entered the world.

    After Mohammed’s death, Abu Bakr, the second caliph, settled the theological arguments of those who wished to leave Islam with the political action of death by the sword. The jihad of Umar (the second caliph, a pope-king) exploded into the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.

    Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.

    The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great’s army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism.

    Zoarasterianism was eliminated from Persia.

    The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam.

    In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.

    Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school.

  24. Dear Creeping,
    thanks for the complement, you dont need to thank as its my duty to present what most people seems to be missing. most of the people here speak and no historical facts, figures, knowledge are supporting them. you see, its very easy to comment but whats the point where people with different races and relgions will start to fight endlessly. this is not the solution. thats why i ask people to research and really back their comments up with esablish proofs and facts.
    as in regard to the concept of jihad, jihad had many meanings. fighting is only one meaning of it. do you know that even jesus ask people to fight in verious places in the bible such as book of numbers Ch31 V1-19, book of Exodas ch22 V.18-19, book of exados, ch32 V.27-28 and jesus himself said in the gospel of luke ch32 V.36 that take the sword and fight. so as far as fighting and jihad is concern, its not new concept that has been introduced in the quran. now how many poeple will know these facts? nfortuneally very few. this how should be people think and reason. irrespective wither they are muslims or non-muslim. fighting with each other and hurting each others believes will cause more and more hatred between us.

  25. Like I said, it better be more than the sensationalist crap made out of someone’s ass, with no evidence what so ever to how he made the numbers, what were actually counted and how they were counted.

    I cannot have any numbers if I don’t know the crap he is talking about, he just sums up people that died without ever pointing to what how when and where.

    For all I know he could be counting people dieing of famine, disease, over 1000 years.

    Not to mention at the time Islamic conquers where most active, and the fights where the highest, between 700-1000, the TOTAL number of the population of the whole world did not exceed 310 million people. If this warner thinks more people died after that than before, then he has no command of history what so ever.

    Any how, while you fail at name calling, “Dumbass? Liar”” Try harder. You also fail at logic.

    But like all right wing nutters, you just look for something on the net the fits your position regurgitate it over and over again despite lacking any of understanding of the erroneous matter you are saying , and, based on your very own admission, refuse to try to understand the things you are saying. Just read and article on the webzzzz does not make you an expert on the matter at hand. Look for real sources, studies and non biased parties, then come making some real citations.

  26. The purpose of this site is not to justify Biblical verses, even when taken out of context and when they only refer to historical events, or when they don’t exist at all (you may want to check your book/verse references). There was also something called the Reformation. See our About page for our purpose or browse the posts.

    Who is committing acts of violence in the name of the Bible, referring to the Bible as justification for killing, and doing so in the name of Jesus? Anyone? Can you site some specific examples? Produce a short 15 minute film perhaps?

  27. They spout Bibles verses only because they are desperate to change the subject. They cannot tolerate any discussion that shines light on the Koran or Muslims.

  28. “Who is committing acts of violence in the name of the Bible, referring to the Bible as justification for killing, and doing so in the name of Jesus? Anyone? Can you site some specific examples? Produce a short 15 minute film perhaps?”

    Did you even bother looking? Ok, I’ll do the lousy / lazy job of cutting / pasting from Wikipedia ( Not the best source, but at least it carries citations unlike some drivel from an interview *cough* Warner* cough*) for your pleasure. Read it well, and check the citations it carries. Am pretty sure you can make a 2 hour sensationalist movie out of it.

    Christian terrorist organizations

    [edit] Army of God

    In 1998, letters were sent to news organizations and law enforcement claiming the Army of God carried out several of the attacks attributed to Eric Rudolph. The Army of God is considered a violent offshoot of Christian Identity, a white supremacist religion considered anti-gay, anti- Semitic and anti-foreigner. An independent group utilizing a sort of ‘leaderless resistance’, not really an organization which holds meetings and large numbers of subscribers, the Army of God dates back more than 20 years and is linked to an underground movement whose members are trained to evade surveillance and to use violence as a method of protest including opposition to abortion. Army of God members have records associated with numerous acts of violence including bombings, shootings, and killings.[86]

    The Army of God is an anti-abortion terrorist organization which holds that their activity is lawful and theologically justified: using deadly force to end abortion in the United States.[87] In 1985 Rev. Mike Bray, the “chaplain” of the Army of God,[88] was convicted of destroying seven abortion facilities in Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia, causing damages of over $1 million. Rev. Paul Hill, an associate of the Army of God, shot and killed Dr. John Britton in Pensacola, Florida in 1994.[5]:11 James Kopp, a member of the Army of God, shot and killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in 1998.[89]

    In 2001, at the height of the United States anthrax scare, more than 170 abortion clinics and doctors offices in 14 states received letters containing white powder and the message “You have been exposed to anthrax. We are going to kill all of you. Army of God, Virginia DARE Chapter.”[90] In December 2003 Clayton Waagner was convicted for these attacks.[88] Waagner had entered the home of antiabortion militant Neal Horsley, tied him up and held him at gunpoint, and then made a taped confession. Ann Glazier, director of clinic security at the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said that during the trial Waagner had “repeatedly bragged that he had been the most wanted man in America and that he was a terrorist. It was unbelievable.”[88] Salon magazine reported that whilst the press had generally called Waagner a terrorist, they “studiously avoid use of the word ‘Christian'”.[88] Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, said “If Waagner had been a self-identified Muslim terrorist instead of a Christian terrorist, he’d have been lynched by now…But if it’s fair to say if we can see the religious motivations in the Taliban, we ought to be able to see them in Waagner or Eric Rudolph.”[88]

    A group which “is not so much an organization” but more of “a shared set of ideas and enemies,”[91] the Army of God utilizes “Leaderless Resistance” a tactic of irregular warfare used against the American government employed by some members of the radical right[92]. The Army of God, whose ultimate goal is establishing a Christian theocracy through violence, claims that the murder of abortion doctors is “justifiable homicide,” exemplifying the group’s evolving philosophy from violence against property to violence against individuals.[93]

    An Army of God manual found buried in the yard of Rochelle “Shelly” Shannon, an Oregon activist convicted of shooting Wichita doctor George Tiller, provides detailed and explicit instructions for home-brewing plastic explosives, fashioning detonators, deactivating alarm systems, cutting phone, gas, and water lines, and includes the statement: “Annihilating abortuaries is our purest form of worship.” However, according to records compiled over a period of twelve years by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) and besieged clinics which included 123 cases of arson, 37 bombings in 33 states, and more than 1,500 cases of stalking, assault, sabotage and burglary, a large portion of staff time was devoted to routine women’s reproductive health care – pap smears, teaching and supplying birth control methods, and treating sexually transmitted diseases – not to abortions. Some of the clinics targeted did not provide abortion services but were subjected to violence nonetheless.[94]

    [edit] Christian Identity

    Christian Identity is a loosely affiliated global group of churches and individuals devoted to a racialized theology that asserts North European whites are the direct descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, God’s chosen people.[95][96] Christian Identity includes such Christian terrorist groups as The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Phineas Priesthood and the Oklahoma Constitutional Militia, also known as the Universal Church of God. Christian Identity is also related to other groups such as Aryan Nations, Aryan Republican Army (ARA) and the Patriots Council.[citation needed]

    Christian Identity has been associated with terrorist Eric Robert Rudolph, who carried out a series of bombings across the southern United States, which killed three people and injured at least 150 others, because he violently opposed abortion and homosexuality as contrary to Christian doctrine. His mother spent time with Nord Davis, a Christian Identity ideologue who wrote propaganda claiming that the world was controlled by Jews, and which advocated killing gays and those who engaged in mixed-race relationships.[95] Rudolph’s sister-in-law claimed that he was a member of the sect, but Rudolph claims to have only been a member of a Christian Identity church for six months because he was dating the daughter of Identity Pastor Dan Gayman, and wrote “I was born a Catholic, and with forgiveness I hope to die one.”[97] Idaho State University sociology professor James A. Aho said, “I would prefer to say that Rudolph is a religiously inspired terrorist, because most mainstream Christians consider Christian Identity to be a heresy.”[96]

    Christian Identity has been associated with Peter Kevin McGregor Langan and Richard “Wild Bill” Guthrie, founders of the Aryan Republican Army (ARA), a paramilitary gang which has been connected to hate fueled terrorist attacks involving train derailments, assassinations, bombings and a string of professionally executed armed bank robberies planned to finance an overthrow of the US Federal government.[98][96] Similar social, cultural, and personal motivations have linked the ARA to a loose network of extreme radical right paramilitary cells including the White Supremacy movement and Christian Identity.[98]

    South African branches of Christian Identity have been accused of involvement in terrorist activity, including the 2002 Soweto bombings.[99]

    [edit] Aryan Nations

    Aryan Nations is a white supremacist group founded by Richard Butler, with headquarters listed as a Lexington, S.C. post office box. In 2007, a 36-year-old man, Jason Hamilton, who had ties to the Aryan Nations, fatally shot himself in a Presbyterian church after killing his wife, a police officer, a church sexton, and wounding three men.[100] Aryan Nations doctrine follows that of Christian Identity which claims that Europeans are the lost tribe of Israel, Jews are satanic, blacks are subhuman, and the Federal Government is illegal.[101]

    In 1999, a member of the neo-Nazi organization, Buford O. Furrow Jr., confessed to FBI in the killing of a fill-in mail carrier, and the wounding of five other people in a Jewish community center. Aryan Nations followers admire Adolf Hitler and claim that minority group members are “mud people” and spawns of Satan. Authorities quoted Furrow as saying he wanted his act to be “a wake-up call to America to kill Jews.” Furrow had also once told police that he often fantasized about suicide, while neighbors, associates, and court records stated that Furrow had a long history of mental illness and had interests in white supremacist religion and paramilitary. Furrow who was an officer of the internal security force of the Aryan Nations reportedly stockpiled weapons and ammunition, abused his wife, and once daydreamed about shooting people at random in a shopping mall near Seattle.[102] Less than an hour after opening fire at the Jewish community center and wounding three little boys and two female workers, Furrow gunned down Joseph Ileto, a U.S. postal worker. Furrow reportedly told investigators he considered killing the mail carrier a “good opportunity” because Ileto was nonwhite and worked for the federal government.[103] Furrow was reportedly second husband to Debbie Mathews, the widow of Robert J. Mathews, domestic terrorist who died in a shootout with Federal authorities in 1994 and the founder of a U.S. neo-Nazi group called the Order which was involved in a campaign of assassinations, bombings and robberies. The Order was supposedly broken apart by arrests, internal dissent and killings; however, some members vowed to strike at targets in small groups or alone, committing violent acts against Jews, blacks, homosexuals or abortion providers thereby earning membership in a loose-knit fraternity of racists who call themselves priests, the Phineas Priesthood. Richard Kelly Hoskins, author of many books about race and banking, one of which was found in Furrow’s van, wrote, “As the kamikaze is to the Japanese, as the Shiite is to Islam, as the Zionist is to the Jew, so the Phineas Priest is to Christiandom.” Interviewed from his home in Lynchburg, Va., Mr. Hoskins said the book found in Furrow’s possession, “War Cycles/Peace Cycles,” was about “the history of usury,” including what he called “the traditional Jewish presence in banking,” and wrote on his Web page that the book explains “the necessity for assassination of national leaders.”[104] For the August 1999 shootings in which five people were wounded and one man killed, Furrow received two life sentences plus 110 years in prison.[105]

    [edit] Christian Patriots

    The anti-federalist, extremist tax-resistance movements, seditious beliefs, religious and racial hatred of the American militia movement and other contemporary white supremacist organizations in association with the broader Christian Patriot movement actively incorporate Christian scripture and biblical liturgy to justify and support violent activities.[106]:105–120 Timothy McVeigh who, along with his accomplice Terry Nichols, carried out the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995, has admitted to a belief in Christian Patriotism and involvement in Patriot activities.[107]

    [edit] Lambs of Christ

    The Lambs of Christ is an anti-abortion terrorist organization which holds that their activity is lawful and theologically justified: using deadly force to end abortion in the United States.[108] James Kopp, who shot and killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in 1998, was a Lambs of Christ activist and a member of the Army of God.[108][89]

    [edit] Nagaland Rebels

    The Nagaland Rebels is a coalition of rebel groups operating in Nagaland, North-East India. The largest of these is the National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM), which is fighting for the establishment of a “Nagaland for Christ”.[109][110] The NSCN-IM have carried out numerous acts of terrorism against the Indian Army, other ethnic groups, and opponents within their own ethnic group.[109] The insurgency has been waged since the 1947 Indian declaration of independence, and has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths.[109]

    Baruah writes that “Christianity is an essential part of Naga identity”; the NSCN-IM estimate that 95% of Nagas are Christian.[111] According to Gordon Means “the religious issue cannot be overlooked… A great number of Nagas are Christians… the Naga Federal Government (NFG) could play upon the fear of many Nagas that within the Indian Union the religious freedom of a small Christian minority would be compromised. An independence movement that can cloak itself in the garb of both nationalism and religious righteousness has an initial advantage. And there can be no doubt that the rebel Nagas are a sincerely pious lot. By all accounts, hymn singing and prayers constitute an important part of their daily routine in their jungle hide-outs. The vice-president of the NFG, Mr. Mhiasiu, was a preacher before joining the underground. Serving as chaplains for the Home Guards are many Baptist ministers.”[112]

    [edit] Groups in the former Yugoslavia

    According to Michael Sells, religious mythology played a crucial role in the Yugoslav wars and Bosnian genocide.[15]:backcover He wrote about the religious ideology of Christoslavism, “In the nineteenth century, the three myths – conversion to Islam based only upon cowardice and greed, stable ethnoreligious groups down through the centuries, and complete depravity of Ottoman rule – became the foundation for a new religious ideology, Christoslavism, the belief that Slavs are Christian by nature and that any conversion from Christianity is a betrayal of the Slavic race.”[15]:36

    Sells asserts that the genocide in Bosnia “was religiously motived and religiously justified. Religious symbols, mythologies, myths of origin (pure Serb race), symbol of passion (Lazar’s death), and eschatological longings (the resurrection of Lazar) were used by religious nationalists to create a re-duplicating Miloš Obilić, avenging himself on the Christ killer, the race traitor, the alien, and, ironically, the falsely accused ‘fundamentalist’ next door. The ideology operated not only in speeches and manifestos, but in specific rituals of atrocity. Survivors of concentration camps report that during torture sessions or when they begged for water they were made to sing Serbian religious nationalist songs reworded to reflect the contemporary conflict.”[15]:89-90

    Norman Cigar asserts that, according to the world’s respected fact-gathering organizations, the Serbs committed over 90% of the war crimes and 100% of the genocide in Bosnia. Together, Croats and Muslims committed under 10% of the atrocities.[113]

    [edit] Tsar Lazar Guard

    The Tsar Lazar Guard is the paramilitary wing of the Movement of Veterans of Serbia. It’s president Željko Vasiljević called it the “first uniformed Christian militia squad, comprised of war veterans from all over Serbia”.[114] The group was officially formed at a swearing in ceremony at the Lazarica Church in Kruševac on 5th May 2007. The group is said to have 5000 troops.[115] The United Nations and NATO have classed Tsar Lazar’s Guard as a terrorist group.[115] Tsar Lazar’s Guard have threatened to attack United Nations and NATO troops if Kosovo declares independence, and have stated their desire to detonate a nuclear bomb in Kosovo.[116]

    [edit] White Eagles

    The White Eagles were a Serbian paramilitary group which carried out a number of atrocities and massacres during the Croatian and Bosnian wars, and acts of terror over the non-Serb population.[117][118] Mirko Jović, leader of the White Eagles, called for a “Christian, Orthodox Serbia with no Muslims and no unbelievers”.[15]:80

    [edit] Group in Poso, Indonesia

    On July 26, 2007, 17 Christians were convicted of religion-inspired terrorism under Indonesian law. A Christian mob attacked, murdered, and beheaded two Muslim fishermen in September 2006, reportedly as retaliation for the execution in 2006 of three Christian farmers, who were convicted of leading a militant group which killed hundreds of Muslims in Poso in 2000, an execution that attracted a plea for clemency from the pope, and accusations from Amnesty International that the trial was unfair.[119][83]

    The convictions come in the context of seven years of violence between Christian and Muslim groups in the province, including the beheading of three Christian schoolgirls on the way to school [84] and the deaths of hundreds of Muslims and Christians, and campaigns of religious cleansing on each side. As part of the conflict numerous individual acts of terror have been perpetrated by both sides.

    [edit] God’s Army

    God’s Army is a Christian revolutionary group in armed rebellion against the military government of Burma. God’s Army consists of around 100-200 veteran fighters, and is led by two twin brothers, who are believed by their followers to be immune to bullets.[120]

    [edit] Ku Klux Klan

    The Ku Klux Klan are proponents of a fundamentalist Christian theology strongly influenced by Christian Reconstructionism, hoping to “reconstruct” the United States along biblical (primarily Old Testament) lines and establish a white-dominated theocracy.[121][122] They have often used terrorism, violence, and acts of intimidation, such as cross burning and lynching, to oppress African Americans and other social or ethnic groups. Hundreds of indictments for crimes of violence and terrorism have been issued against them, and many Klan members have been prosecuted.[123]

    The Ku Klux Klan consists of many subgroups who have individually carried out terrorist acts. One example is the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, who in 1998 were found guilty of burning a 100-year-old black Baptist church to the ground.[124]

    [edit] National Liberation Front of Tripura

    Allegedly funded by the Baptist Church of Tripura, it is accused of ethnic cleansing[125] and bombings that have killed hundreds, as well as forcing gunpoint conversions. They were declared a terrorist organization under the Indian Prevention of Terrorism Act in 2002. And their stated goals include the overthrow imperialism, capitalism and neo-colonialism by way of armed struggle so they can form a distinct and independent Borok civilization in Twipra.[126] They state that they have been completely marginalized by the immigration of nonnative peoples, been oppressed socio-politically, and economically exploited. They believe they are facing an identity crisis due to chauvinism and imperialism from what they call the so-called Aryan descendants of Hindustan(India).[127][128]

    [edit] Sons of Freedom

    Faith, Fanaticism, & Fire

    Sons of Freedom are a sect of religious anarchists who believe man owes allegiance only to God, part of a Russian nonconformist movement called the Doukhobors (literally “spirit wrestlers”) who came to Canada in 1899. Until 1962, the capital of the Sons of Freedom was a village in British Columbia, Krestova (which in Russian means “City of the Cross”, to which, in 1966, the Sons of Freedom returned. The Sons of Freedom have used violence, terrorism, arson and explosives in their defiance of all “worldly” authority including the Canadian government, rebelling against laws requiring their children to attend school, government efforts to force relinquishment of their squatters’ rights, and Canadian taxes. In 1961, the Freedomites’ violence peaked as they bombed towns from Nelson to New Denver, blaming the government for the 1924 murder of Peter Lordly. As signs of protest the Sons of Freedom have marched nude, blown up power pylons, railroad bridges, and set fire to homes, often targeting their own property.[129]

    [edit] Lebanese groups

    [edit] Guardians of the Cedars

    The Guardians of the Cedars is the paramilitary wing of the banned Lebanese Renewal Party, and one of several Christian militias active in the Lebanese Civil War.[130] From 1973 their slogans have included “No Palestinian will remain on Lebanese soil” and “A good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian”.[131] According to Judith Tucker, “the Guardians of the Cedars played an important role in terrorist strategy throughout the wars in Lebanon… They are best known today for the numberous attacks and cold-blooded murders of Palestinian civilians in the Sidon region.”[131] In an interview carried out by the Jerusalem Post, leader Abu Arz said that Palestinians should be ethnically cleansed from Lebanon “We shall drive them to the borders of ‘brotherly’ Syria and tell them to keep walking. Anyone who looks back, stops or returns will be shot on the spot. When I suggest that such harsh procedures might put the Christian world against them, he simply says: ‘We are the Christian world.'”[132]

    [edit] Lebanese Forces

    The Lebanese Forces (also known as the Christian Phalangist Militia) is a right wing group who drew their ideological support from Maronite monks, and were one of several Christian militias active in the Lebanese Civil War.[133][134] The group carried out the Sabra and Shatila massacre, in which an estimated 700-3500 refugees were murdered. Leader Samir Geagea and Deputy Commander Fu’ad Malik have been convicted for acts of domestic terrorism and war crimes.[135]

    [edit] Groups in Northern Ireland

    According to Mark Juergensmeyer, religion was a contributing factor to terrorism in Northern Ireland; he wrote “Like residents of Belfast and London, Americans were beginning to learn to live with acts of religious terrorism: shocking, disturbing incidents of violence laced with the passion of religion – in these cases, Christianity”[5]:19 and “The violence in Northern Ireland is justified by still other theological positions, Catholic and Protestant.”[5]:20 and “The ferocity of religious violence was brought home to me in 1998 when I received the news that a car bomb had exploded in a Belfast neighborhood I had visited the day before.[5]:4 Sweeney also argued that the Irish cause was religious in nature “in the eyes of many ordinary Irish people… The martyrs and their cause became sacred”.[27] The conflict was also cast in religious terms by some of its more notable leaders, for example Ian Paisley, who once said “The Provisional IRA is the military wing of the Roman Catholic Church.”[136] Organized paramilitary crime, including drugs and racketeering, have threatened civil society in Ireland as gangs with both Catholic and Protestant ties have engaged in activities such as “drug dealing, counterfeiting and forgery, money-laundering, benefits fraud, car theft, arms trading, extortion and cross-border smuggling” and influencing employment.[137] The Loyalist Volunteer Force, a Protestant paramilitary group which makes large sums of money trafficking in drugs and death, have a reputation for humiliating women and often hire themselves out as assassins. The gang has been linked to a string of murders including an 18-year-old Catholic girl who was killed as she slept next to her Protestant boyfriend, and the only murder of a journalist during the Troubles, reporter Martin O’Hagan in 1999.[138] Martin O’Hagan, a former inmate of the Maze prison, was a fearless reporter on crime and the paramilitaries. His death is attributed to loyalists and the revival of religious fundamentalism.[139]

    Although often advocating nationalist policies, these groups consisted of and were supported by distinct religious groups in a religiously partitioned society. Groups on both sides advocated what they saw as armed defence of their own religious group. For example, amongst their supporters the IRA were widely regarded as defenders of Roman Catholic people against aggression.[140]:134-135 Two main loyalist paramilitary groups, the Ulster Volunteer Force, formed in 1966 to combat nationalists and responsible for more than 500 deaths, and the largest loyalist paramilitary organization in Northern Ireland, the Ulster Defence Association, banned in 1992, and estimated to have killed more than 400 people, have been involved in violence and attacks not only on Catholics, but during riots involving attacks against the police and army in September 2005, the worst street violence in Northern Ireland for 10 years. [141]

    Notable Catholic groups include:

    * Provisional Irish Republican Army.
    * Official IRA
    * Irish National Liberation Army (also known as the Catholic Reaction Force)
    * Irish People’s Liberation Organisation
    * Continuity IRA
    * Real IRA

    Notable Protestant groups include:

    * Ulster Volunteer Force
    * Ulster Defence Association
    * Loyalist Volunteer Force
    * Red Hand Commandos
    * Ulster Resistance

    [edit] The Lord’s Resistance Army

    The Lord’s Resistance Army is a guerrilla army engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government, and is accused of many acts of mutilation, torture, rape, abduction, the use of child soldiers and a number of massacres. It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the Christian Holy Spirit which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations.[142] The group aim to establish a Christian state by replacing the Ugandan constitution with the Bible’s Ten Commandments.[85][142] The LRA has been known by a number of different names, including the “Lord’s Army” (1987 to 1988) and the “Uganda Peoples Democratic Christian Army” (1988 to 1992).[143]

    The LRA insurgency has displaced nearly two million people and more than 10,000 have been killed in massacres, while twice that number of children have been abducted by the LRA and forced to work as soldiers, porters and sex slaves.[86] LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle, but some Islam is mixed into their beliefs as well.[87] The LRA uniform pips contain a white bible inside a heart.[88] Joseph Kony has justified murdering his own Acholi people with biblical references[89] and has named one of his children “George Bush” in honour of U.S. Christian president George W. Bush.[90][91]

    The LRA have been noted for cutting off the hands, lips, breasts and noses of their victims. Leader Joseph Kony has claimed this is justified by the Bible, “If you pick up an arrow against us and we ended up cutting off the hand you used, who is to blame? You report us with your mouth, and we cut off your lips. Who is to blame? It is you! The Bible says that if your hand, eye or mouth is at fault, it should be cut off.”[92]

  29. “They spout Bibles verses only because they are desperate to change the subject. They cannot tolerate any discussion that shines light on the Koran or Muslims.”

    Actually I did “tolerate” a discussion about the Koran, and this was your answer:

    “As far as the Koran goes.. I dont give a shit what it means.”

    Good job.

  30. Medfreak,

    From your own words “Just read and article on the webzzzz does not make you an expert on the matter at hand. Look for real sources, studies and non biased parties, then come making some real citations.”

    Wilders used the Quran and Muslims as his source…you used Wikipedia…your desperation is evident…

    try pasting hyperlinks rather than entire pages from other sources – thanks

  31. “Wilders used the Quran and Muslims as his source…you used Wikipedia…your desperation is evident…”

    Desperation is such a poor description, more like ownage? I already pre-empted this argument by saying :

    “Not the best source, but at least it carries citations unlike some drivel from an interview *cough* Warner* cough*) for your pleasure. Read it well, and check the citations it carries.”

    Wikipedia has a long list of citations. If you have anything against wikpedia, all you have to do is correct those articles with the proper logic and references. Wait, you can’t because you don’t have any. Wilders fails at even using the proper Quranic references correctly, as I have shown earlier, and both of you failed to even argue against it. As far as “Muslim” sources, all I need to do is get some pictures of a rapist, say he is a Christian, try the magical link with Christianity and add some lousy music, and you got the holy grail of movies.

    You asked for Christians that commit terrorism in the name of Christianity as if it was a challenge. I gave it to you, and it just took me 3 minutes using a search engine. You don’t even comment on it.

    I wonder who is desperate here.

  32. Cry more vince.

    I never knew Wikipedia is an Islamofascist biased website. Why you can’t boss people around there and push your ideas?

    I love it when people act as if wikipedia is something not credible, yet they believe horse shit movies like this one.

    Well, wikipedia HAS CITATIONS. I could link to the citations rather than wikipedia itself. But of course, you lazy ass people don’t wanna do the work and just want more movies that agree with your backward viewpoints regardless of how utterly false they are.

    Enjoy your ignorance.

  33. You sure put a lot of effort into changing the subject, I’m not interested in changing the subject though. So you can post all the documentation in the world about non muslim religions and I simply dont care.

    Islam is the death cult religion , there is no other.

  34. “You sure put a lot of effort into changing the subject, I’m not interested in changing the subject though. So you can post all the documentation in the world about non muslim religions and I simply dont care.

    Islam is the death cult religion , there is no other.”

    Now thats what I call desperation, my replay was not a “ploy” at changing the subject, it was obviously a reply to creeping when he said:

    “Who is committing acts of violence in the name of the Bible, referring to the Bible as justification for killing, and doing so in the name of Jesus? Anyone? Can you site some specific examples? Produce a short 15 minute film perhaps?”

    And I actually started by discussing this movie, instead you went on blabbering about some false numbers here and there.

    You want to go back to the subject? Answer this :

    Why did this movie lie about this verse:

    The first verse to be mentioned in the movie:

    Quran – Surah 8, verse 60
    Prepare for them whatever force
    And cavalry ye are able of gathering
    To strike terror
    To strike terror into the hearts of the enemies, of Allah and
    Your enemies

    This is a verse set about 14 centuries ago. It was regarding the coming war between the first Muslims and the pagans who threatened to wipe / kill all Muslims. The Pagans outnumbered Muslims by a ratio of 10:1. The point of the verse is to set up for a psychological warfare, where by a show of force could strike fear into your enemy. Very similar to what the U.S. is doing showing off with all those warships not too far from the coasts of Iran. But of course to the typical retard watching the movie (E.g trumetal) he would read the word terror, and watch the slidshow showing 9/11, and make the 1 year old level conclusion: Verse talks about terrorism = 9/11 is terrorism, therefore Quran is inciting terrorism.

    Very simple and direct question. The subject in hand being the movie, the question being a verse that the movie claims incites terrorism, when in fact it doesn’t.

    Very simple and direct question. Can’t get any closer to the subject.

    Try harder.

  35. MedFreak…

    You are so right – it doesn’t incite terrorism it incites psychological warfare – pardon our interpretation and pardon us for not noticing the expiration date on the Quran.

    By your logic, nothing in the Quran is valid because it was set 14 centuries ago – now if we can only explain that to the 2 billion Muslims who wrongfully believe the Quran is still relevant.

  36. “By your logic, nothing in the Quran is valid because it was set 14 centuries ago – now if we can only explain that to the 2 billion Muslims who wrongfully believe the Quran is still relevant.”

    No they actually do understand what that specific verse meant. The 2 billion people do. You don’t. It’s not simply invalid if it tells a story. It is as valid today as it was then. If you want to fight a way, you should do the things most modern armies do, such as show off with weaponry like what the united states is currently doing.

    Claiming that 2 billion people don’t understand it is such a falsehood. 2 billion people are not committing terrorism in the name of that verse because it happens to mention terror. If 2 billion people were to commit terrorism not a single human being would be alive on this planet.

    The only people that don’t understand that verse are people such as yourself and the cult of bigots that support these movies, because they think that that verse is behind all the troubles we currently face.

    “Islam is the death cult religion , there is no other.”

    Funny thing is, this “death cult” religion carried around many civilizations for thousands of years, kept science alive when Europe was in the darkest of ages.

    Why do you think the religious identity of Jeruselam is intact right now if Muslim nutters controlled it for so many centuries and were the superpower that controlled most of this world… shouldn’t they obliterate any evidence of Christianity or Judaism in there? Some savages they were.

    In fact, Islamic countries were always a sought after refuge to many Jews running from the rampant persecution and antisemitism in Europe during those many centuries.

    Not so much can be said about what Israel is doing in Jerusalem right now trying to obliterate any evidence of Islam in there.

  37. Dear all,

    It is very shockingly amazing to hear and read about the contents of a movie by a Dutch parlimentarian, supposed to be a man with a great sense of responsibility which he is not.

    I really feel very sorry for the voters who voted for such an idiot who rather than bridging the gap among the different cultures and religions is spreading hatred in the world by twisting the facts.

    The fact should not be forgotten that Mr. Wilders is using rather misusing his position and the EU shoulder to fulfill his ill willed agendas to bring enemity between Muslims and Christians. What does he really want???

    I would like to conclude on the yesterday’s report by Vatican that Islam has outnumbered the others and have become the moist observed religion of the world, may i ask why??? Do both things have any connection??

    love and peace for all

  38. Yes we know what that means to Muslims…love and peace to all as long as you submit to Islam.

    Stating there are more Muslims than Catholics is like stating there are more baseball players in the National League than there are players on the Yankees. We can manipulate statistics as well, aren’t there more Christians than Muslims?

    Are we to be intimidated now by your massive presence? Are we to shut up and ignore the violence Muslims commit in the name of Allah because you are more populous than one sector of the Christian faith? That is the plan right?

    Isn’t it shocking to watch your fellow Muslims fly planes into buildings? To behead little girls? To deny your own people vaccines because they were developed by infidels?

    Is there any connection between the fact that Muslims read the Quran and Muslims are the most ardent practitioners of suicide bombing? May I ask why? Do both things have any connection?

  39. let the nature speaks the truth weater islam is fitna or not you can,t judged by saying but you can judge by seeing. the percent of fitna inthe world is from saying not from seeing, the media,writters,and ignorance speaks, but the wise watch

  40. Pingback: Taliban Blame Attacks on Fitna « Creeping Sharia

  41. Ata Khan wrote: [[I would like to conclude on the yesterday’s report by Vatican that Islam has outnumbered the others and have become the moist observed religion of the world, may i ask why??? ]]]

    First of all try and understand that Roman Catholicism is just one denomination of Christianity. The combined strength of Christianity is more than 2 billion and growing. Some 30,000 embrace Christianity DAILY in China alone.

    Reason why Islam explodes is because muslim men treat their women as the field – Quran 2:223 “Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, rampant polygamy by muslim men is another. Muslim women are treated as hot ovens for baby making.

    What is of concern is that life for muslims in their islamic paradise is one of total misery; despotic rule, no mobility, no education (learning the quran does not equip one for 21st century skills-demand) stifling society and so on. What is of even greater concern is that in Saudi Arabia, 60% of all children are sickly, mental retards, massive skeletal and bone problems due to consangenious marriages. What’s the point of belonging to a belief when one has to struggle to continue to face another miserable day?

    With all that wealth from oil, every muslim should ask: Why are all muslim countries FAILED STATES, CESSPOOLS given life by non muslims.

  42. 1) What kind of man was Muhammad that he would have a 120 year old man murdered because he urged his fellow citizens to doubt Muhammad?
    In “23 Years; A Study of the Prophetic Career of Muhammad by Ali Dashti – Mazda Press – “Abu Afak, a man of great age (reputedly 120 years) was killed because he lampooned Mohammad. The deed was done by Salem b. ‘Omayr at the behest of the Prophet, who had asked, “Who will deal with this rascal for me?” The killing of such an old man moved a poetess, Asma b. Marwan, to compose disrespectful verses about the Prophet, and she too was assassinated.”

    Omayr is a perfect example of this. Here is a Muslim man, a friend of Muhammad’s, acting upon Muhammad’s request and going into a woman’s home under the cover of night. He comes upon the women, sleeping in her bed with her child, and murders her by plunging a sword through her body.

    Afterwards, Muhammad tells the man that he has “helped God and his apostle”. If Allah were really threatened by this woman, I think He could have killed her Himself, don’t you? Does God need men to sneak around in the night and murder sleeping women?

    The ATTITUDE of the non-Muslim Arabs in Mo’s time. They did lack a sense of the value of human life. Here one of their own woman was murdered, and instead of being appalled, they began to convert to Islam because they “saw the power of Islam”.

    Fast forward to the 21st century, in Afghanistan a prominent female journalist Zakia Zaki was shot dead as she SLEPT WITH HER 8 MONTH OLD BABY. See the CONTINUING atrocity? The evil cult of islam is in stuck mode of utter, repulsive cruelty.

    . A question-and-answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters, according to Islam Watch. “Because non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet,” the Imam says, according to the report. “If you don’t believe me, here is the legal authority, the top Muslim lawyer of Britain.” The lawyer, Anjem Choudary, backs up the Imam’s position, saying that all Muslims are innocent. Click here to watch the interview with Islamic lawyer Anjem Choudary. “You are innocent if you are a Muslim,” Choudary tells the BBC. “Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God.” Choudary said he would not condemn a Muslim for any action. “As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters,” Choudary said. “I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim.”,2933,344409,00.html

    BESLAN is a prime example of murderous muslims atrocity and Geert Wilders should have had the scene where an 18 month old baby was stabbed 18 TIMES to death because the filthy evil muslim ran out of bullets.

    But islam is from Satan, Ishmael was cursed by the god of their common forefather Abrahama, so muslims are going to be annihilated soon.

If sharia law continues spreading, you'll have less and less freedom of speech - so speak while you can!

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